Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion So aggravated...

So, at our local library, we found an event on their calendar called "Math is fun!" designed for 2nd-4th grade. DS4, our resident math-head (who is probably mid 3rd grade math, with ability in higher grades as well, for some of the topics) got very excited, and so we signed him up, writing a little note at the bottom mentioning that he was 4 but that he is advanced and the material would not be a problem for him.

Needless to say, we got an email back from the library, saying that the teacher running the club was "certain" that the material would not be appropriate, regardless of how advanced he was. (Interesting that she knows that without meeting him, no?) and here are some things that are 'age-appropriate'. So I called the library and spoke to the woman who emailed me, and tried to explain the situation. She sort of sympathized, but didn't seem to exactly believe me, and compared DS to "a lot of other kids around, that come looking for this sort of thing" (where are these kids? if there are so many highly gifted kids around that I don't know about, please show me them! I want playdates!) she also said that she didn't want to make the teacher uncomfortable, worried about maturity level etc - to which I replied that he should be fine, but even if he is not, and starts bouncing off the walls/being a distraction, whatever, we would just leave, and spend the rest of the time in the main part of the library. I wouldn't keep him in there if it wasn't working or if he was being a menace (who would?) So SHE said she would email the teacher and tell her this, and see what her concerns were, and then get back to me.

Frankly, I am not optimistic, just based on the initial response. I also don't know how a 4 year in the class would make someone 'uncomfortable'. I am not about to let him ruin the class...I don't know what she thinks would happen. But either way, I am just upset at the reaction, and I do not relish the thought of having to tell DS that we aren't able to go to the math club anymore because he is 'too young', regardless of ability. It just doesn't seem fair.

I'm not sure if there is anything else I can do, besides what I have already done, so I think this is mostly just to express my distaste of the whole situation.

I'm sure many of you have been in this boat before...but if you haven't, it sucks.

We had the same experience recently. It was for a summer camp for 3rd-5th graders and my son is a 2nd grader. Oh my gosh. And my kid is old for his grade. Same reasons that were cited for you were cited for us as well. I actually succeed at getting him in but the lady was a pain and pretty offensive. We'll see if anyone's head explodes. Next time, I am lying about age/grade as necessary. Seriously. Many places do not require proof of age or grade ... it's really not worth the hassle.

I have never been in this boat before as a parent. However,once upon a time I was a young 4-year-old first grader in class with 6 and 1/2 to 7 year-old children. I highly suspect the issue has nothing to do with math achievement although the librarian and the teacher are likely skeptical of your claims as well.
I suspect the real issue has to do with the perceived maturity of your 4-year-old as well as your required presence. I seriously doubt that the parents of the 2nd to 4th graders will be sitting with their children as they have been in schools for years. Perhaps this teacher would feel more comfortable without a parent hanging around and/or thinks the children will be more focused without a parent hanging around.
Perhaps you can let them know that your child is mature enough not to need you to hang around. Although that may not work either if they don't want to be responsible for such a young child.

FWIW, from my perspective your situation is slightly different than Irena's situation putting a 2nd grader into a 3rd+ class. I would have been frustrated with that - we've btdt that with our ds at that age with a similar age difference, and it worked out a-ok.

In this situation, you're looking at sending a 4 year old who most likely hasn't been attending full-day regular school yet into a group that is geared for 2nd+ graders who have a few years of schooling behind them + are several years older. Does that mean they know more about math or are as highly capable in math ability? Not at all! But it does mean they are most likely operating on a different maturity level re social situations, which is a large part of what the person leading the group is going to be dealing with. I agree with Quantum:


I'll also add something else in - it's possible that while you're looking at this activity as an enrichment activity for a child who is highly capable and loves math, the real purpose of it might be to encourage children who *aren't* wildly in love with math or as highly capable to see themselves as capable and to see math as fun. I have one of those kids in my family, alongside an EG kiddo who absorbs math just by breathing. My math-y EG kiddo didn't particularly have all that much fun at activities like this.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Polarbear, can you help with some advice on my "DRA reading help" thread? Under "Parenting and Advocacy" - thanks!

Irena I pm'd you. Not that there was anything worthwhile in the pm, but it's there

polar

BTDT - library story time groups, science classes, lego classes.. you name it and we've had these issues.

I agree that they worry more about the social aspect of it all - they are concerned about keeping kids in their seats long enough to focus on the activities.

And I agree with Portia - it's one thing for your child to enjoy the class, but rarely will the older kids appreciate, much less enjoy, being shown up by a child so much younger than they are.

Should this be your concern? not really - and if it were homeschooled/unschooled kids it would not even be an issue.

But it will be an issue if they do any group work - for your son.

Aiden started cubs a few months early, and now nearly 8 months in is STILL getting flack from some of the kids (and very subtly some parents) about his age, and his ability levels. There are always comments about his "Grade" level too - every single week my kid has to justify why he is working across grades 3, 4 and 5 but is one of the youngest there. Esp when he corrects reading/spelling/maths by older kids.

It's not fair but it is what happens.

Perhaps you could offer to host a similar program for mixed age high ability mathy kids?

Marnie, you know I feel for you and your DS but I don't think I would let DD3 join a math group for 2nd to 4th graders because DD has made older children and their parents very uncomfortable in the past and one of these incidents involved math. We were sitting on a bench right next to a second grader boy who didn't understand his math homework. His mom was getting visibly upset and was starting to yell at him for not being able to do his homework. Sensing that the boy was in trouble, DD3 (I think she was almost 3 at the time) gave him an answer and tried to explain the concept to him. I whispered to DD that his mother was helping him so everything is okay and she could go back to doing her own activity. Needless to say, his mom got even more upset with her son and her voice got even louder. Tears started rolling down on his cheeks and we left. I probably should have said something but I couldn't think of anything appropriate on the spot.

In a structured group setting with a teacher to control the flow, it probably won't be as horrible but I am getting the look from other parents during library story time as DD tends to answers all the vocabulary questions with razor-sharp precision. This sometimes happens after older children give random answers so I can understand if other parents feel DD's presence is not good for their child's confidence. It's a sticky situation. I don't think DD is trying to outshine anyone but I suspect the positive feedback is starting to get to her head.

We're considering summer music camp for DD and it's a lot easier for music because some children have started when they're 3 like DD and it's perfectly understandable for them to be ahead of older children who recently started on that instrument. When it comes to academics though, both children and parents can be quite sensitive.

This is one of the reasons why I'm starting to feel GT education is preferable to acceleration.

I do understand where everyone is coming from...especially after the initial resentment and mother hen instinct has worn off. My hackles are out when this kind of thing arises, and I do kind of still think, (for a free library event, at least) it's a little...I don't know, discriminating? (for lack of a better word). At least, it feels that way to us, though I understand that the social aspect might be the more pressing issue (even though I was told originally that the material would be the issue).

Sigh. I guess we will see what happens. Either way, I think that both points of view have validity - and honestly, it's a little unfair either way the chips fall. It's just so hard dealing with this kind of asynchrony WITHOUT having to butt heads over the little stuff...like free library classes...and makes me anxious about dealing with the stuff that DOES matter, like school, etc.

@Madoosa, that's not a bad idea, starting my own library event...I'm not sure how it works, if I would be allowed, or if anyone would be interested in actually coming to it...but it's certainly worth investigating.

I'll let you know how it pans out. Thanks, as always, for your support/perspective.

Good luck - for a free library event surely it shouldn't be a big deal? I've signed up DD to slightly more formal science classes where the teacher allowed her in but expressed doubts and requested I stay too (parents could stay or not as they wished) in case she needed help.
She didn't She completed the whole project completely by herself, first in the class - she was 7 in a class for 9-12 year olds. Teacher was impressed so hopefully we'll get in without question next time! (although honestly not sure how she'd feel about DD joining the 12-16 year old classes, which would actually be challenging for her, and I'm not sure how I'd feel about that either)
For casual things at the library I haven't even bothered specifying her age. Maybe bald-faced lie to them and say you made a mistake, he's really 10