Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion DD8 doesn't like competitions

My DD8, who just started 4th grade, is participating in our school's Math Olympiad. This pull out program will give her more rigor than the math she'll get in her regular classroom. She was initially excited to participate, but now tells us that she doesn't like competitions. She said she doesn't like it when people get mad at her for winning, and also that she doesn't like it when other people who win gloat (her word).

She is that child who maneuvers things in her favor in order to win, even when playing simple games with us and her brother., and gets mad if she doesn't win and often claims the other party cheated and it's not fair. She stopped playing chess a few years back, after initially loving it, but then participating in a tournament and not doing well. She has also declared that she will never participate in team sports.

We think what's going on with her is two-fold. Her perfectionism and need to win are being exacerbated by her over-sensitivities regarding people who lose (crying for them), upsetting other people when she wins, and having other people gloat in front of her when they win.

Anyone else dealt with this distaste for competition? Any words of wisdom about how to get her past this? We think the Math Olympiad is a wonderful academic opportunity for her and will provide rigor (she loves math). Plus I've been trying to teach about the benefits of healthy competition and that win or lose, there are always lessons to be learned. Advice???

Is it possible for her to do Math Olympiad practice without entering the competition? The question papers and solutions are available for anyone who just wants the rigor without competing.

In our case, my DS thrives on competition while I do not like competitions! So, he is doing the MOEM problems in a non-competitive setting this year.

I feel your frustration- both my kids really dislike competitions and avoided them throughout elementary and most of middle school. (Refused to do the spelling bees or the geo bee even when only a small group qualified, that kind of thing.) I think we also had issues with perfectionism, but also with sensitivity to the attention that comes with winning or showing your talents, some of which was related to bullying issues.

I don't know how math Olympiad is organized (we have math team here, but both kids balked and have refused to participate) but we did find success with the science Olympiad team- both have competed for several years, happily.

I think there are a few reasons this one was successful for us when other competitions were not- the SO is really team focused, and success is dependent in a large part on how well the team works together. Competitions are designed intentionally to require two or three students to work together, and their "practicing" takes this into account. So it is really collaborative- there is still pressure to succeed, but it is more about not letting your teammates down, not as much about individual pressure, if that makes sense. Plus, they loved being a part of a team, all the jokes, team spirit, etc, the community jail worked for my guys.

The other factor may just be the group dynamics- the SO team here is more collegial and they love to socialize, have fun etc- they are competitive, but learning and the peer group is the draw for most of them. We got the sense the math team was more about individual achievement, which for our kids was a big turn-off. There are a lot of parents who seemed over-invested in the results, and the school publicizes it, that kind of thing. Again, this atmosphere will differ everywhere, so you may just need to feel things out or talk with people involved to get a feel for the group, if you think that is a factor in your DDs behavior.

I'm an outlier here, but I'll chime in, in case there are other outliers hiding out there who'd like to know they are not alone. This is my opinion and as luck would have it, it matches with my child's opinion and disposition. Obviously others have vastly different opinions and I totally respect that and wish them best of luck at the next match!

I absolutely loathe all these academic competitions for young kids. For our family, the downside far outweighs the upside.

Even if a kid is in them for the pure joy of the subject (which is WHY a kid should be in them at this age), the joy is muted and the value is gutted by the people striving to vicariously win through their kids. And they are all over this stuff.

This is made worse by the furthering the idea that intellectual pursuits should be competitive. This despite all the evidence that meaningful academic achievements (e.g., novel research, inventions, ideas) almost always build on work done by and/or with others.

Fortunately for me, DS8 innately shares this opinion. Since before he could speak, he rejected dog-and-pony shows of any sort. "Do you know what 2+3 is" was met with stony silence, even though he darned well knew the answer. Though he is highly competitive, he considers academic competitions to be "silly and useless." His words, not mine - I've always been as neutral as possible, because i wouldn't want to stymie him if he WAS interested in this sort of competition.

So anyway - in case there are others wondering if they should push their kids into academic competions: we don't, and this is why. Again - your opinion may be totally different and I don't discount it.

It is a hassle when what little extension available just doesn't work for your kid. Last year ds9 got into the extension programmes for maths and future problem solving. I thought yay something for him at last. His opinion was that doing basic calculations quickly with bigger numbers than in class was horrible - and I agree. He didn't like the other one much either.

Yes, it's frustrating that the only extension program is a competition. Caveat: This is our first year, so I don't know how competitive it is, and also if its an individual competition, team competition or a combo. But I'm going to find out.

We have a wonderful after school / Saturday program in our area that she loves (attended summer camp there), but it is very expensive and would mean transporting her there and adding to an already busy schedule. Whereas Math Olympiad at school is free, on site and during the school day. Plus other parents whose kids were in it before us have expressed concern that if she doesn't do Olympiad, she might get really bored with the regular classwork. I have no desire to force her to compete. And we let her walk away from chess without much fuss. (My HG DH also told me that he also always hated competitions - yet he thinks team sports are important for kids to participate in). But I do worry about the pressure she puts on herself to be perfect, and I'd like to see her in some collaborative environments in which she can excel but then can also experience challenges and failures, and not always be able to manipulate her own win.

Happy to continue to hear more opinions and what's worked for people.

2nd grade district competition was a horrible experience for my son. None of the kids on his team could agree on his answers and they lost. The proctor brought his scrap paper to him at the end and told him he did a awesome job.

The kids who thought all their answers were right were upset and cryng. His 2E (Aspie) does not help in these situations as he found it difficult to understand why his team mates did not just use his answers.
He wanted to find out were the team placed but his teacher did not want to upset the other kids on the team. I skippd the after competition lunch and let my son ask the judges all the questions he had. They were very kind to him. By the time we left he had figured out the team would not have been in the top 3 winning but they would have placed in the top 6.
He was happy and pleased to know this information.

I am not going to push him this year if he decides not to do it.
His teacher of course will not be happy. Her beginning year AGP test showed him at the end of 5 th grade in math. It is to bad it did not go higher. I would have liked for it to. Instead they will work on the area in 5th with gaps. It is all about the big Common Core aligned state test here.

After thought..

3rd grade AGP math class my son is in this year has several kids from the 2nd grade team. They are all in AGP math this year for the first time. The school offered reading in 1-2 grades.

Maybe working together in class will bring them to a better understanding of team work..

I see the teacher's actions as feeding a negative downward spiral in which the team is ruled by emotion. That said, the teacher may have been waiting for other timing to present the team with factual information when they were not in an emotional state and could better absorb the feedback, and understand the process as one in which math facts, logic, and showing one's work step by step win out over emotion.

Kudos to you, and to your son.

I believe that any person thinking logically would find it difficult to understand why the team mates could not follow the math problem solution steps jotted on his piece of scrap paper and understand the answers which he derived (and/or suggest where a step might be worked in a different manner).

That may be, however the creation of effective teamwork rarely occurs in a vacuum. It may be helpful/necessary for someone to explain the process as one in which math facts, logic, and showing one's work step by step win out over emotion.

There's an old saying that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

There are other types of competitions, and better/different teachers/coaches. One idea for a mathy kid may be to begin working prior years' middle and high school math problem sets and reviewing the provided answers, from a math talent search. By the time the child is in middle school, s/he may be interested in competing in the math talent search.