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    #229940 04/28/16 04:37 AM
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    sesjas Offline OP
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    Greetings,

    My 8 year old son - who is moderately gifted - is doing really well at school, both socially and academically. We've been incredibly lucky with his schooling, despite the fact that it does not have a separate programme for gifted children. Often, when he gets home, he reports that today was 'the best day ever'.

    On the other hand, when our son is at home, he is sometimes bored to tears, literally. We have a 2 year old son who has very different needs than our 8 year old, and it's often the case that the younger son gets more attention on our household. It saddens me that I cannot devote equal attention to both of them, but I have to make sure that the younger child is safe, etc. Of course my husband and I try to ensure that each of us pays attention to one of the children, but for whatever reason, there are times during the day when that is simply not possible.

    So our older son is allowed to have 2 hours of screentime per day on the weekends. He's become really enchanted with minecraft, and now he wants to play it all the time. He agrees to the time limits we've set in advance; however, when it's time for him to turn it off, he screams and cries. And it's not just your normal crying for what we would think is a normal amount of time. Last weekend, he scream-cried for an hour before calming down.

    So there are two issues that I feel we could use some advice with.

    1) the whole minecraft game. Is 2 hours too much? Or are we being too strict about it, and should we simply allow him to play it whenever there's a lull in activity, rather than a set amount of time?

    2) the scream-cry. This started when he was about 6 years old. It feels aggressive and directed towards us, his parents. It's difficult to not react to it, because it certainly feels as though he's the one punishing us! I am devoted, however, to allowing my son to have his feelings, and I try not to judge. But the scream-cry is very loud! VERY loud! And I worry that this type of emoting has more to do with expressing anger than sadness and that there's something fundamentally wrong that we've missed. Do any of you experience the same sort of crying?

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    I don’t think you’re being unreasonable with your limit. DS12 loved Minecraft too, and we set limits of 1 hour per day on weekends. Otherwise, he could have played all day long.

    Neither my husband nor I would be able to handle an hour of scream-crying. A couple suggestions:

    Let your son know how much the scream-crying disturbs the household and how it’s not acceptable behaviour for a big boy of 8. (Obviously, hold this discussion when he’s not upset.) At the same time, let him know about the new rules. I would suggest either:

    - If he’s going to continue to carry on when time’s up, he won’t be allowed to start--no minecraft at all the next day.
    - Or, deduct crying time from his time. He cries for five minutes today, you deduct five minutes from his next session. He cries for an hour, you deduct an hour. It’s up to him.

    Also, maybe set a timer, instead of telling your son when the time is up. Somehow a timer is more impersonal and harder to argue with.

    Good luck!

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    You might want to consider limiting his Minecraft time somewhat until he can control himself when it is time to stop. Also, I would warn him in advance that if he acts that way when his time is up, you will not be able to let him play Minecraft the next day, and follow through on it.

    Last edited by momoftwins; 04/28/16 09:23 AM.
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    DS10 started playing Minecraft several years ago, and had some serious behavioral problems because of it. We wound up limiting it to two hours on Fridays and Saturdays. Not Sundays, because the worst behavior was usually the day *after* playing. Having a timer was very helpful (it's not Mom telling you to stop, it's the timer), but I always a separate time going on my phone, because it was just too easy to cheat. He also couldn't play for two hours straight; it was two one-hour sessions.


    Although he still sometimes has problems immediately after screen time (transitioning to the real world), overall it's much better and we don't limit it as much. At 6, though, he didn't have the same capacity and needed us to limit for him.

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    I would do what others have suggested of timing the scream-cry and deducting time for the next day. I do think I would give him a short "grace period," though, and I might start it out on the long side and then reduce it. So, say, for the month that you introduce the system, he is allowed to cry for 15 minutes after being cut off, but then you start the stopwatch to figure out how much time to deduct the next day. Next month, his grace period goes to 10 minutes, then 5, then 3, then 1.

    The down side of this, of course, is that you have to listen to the scream-cry for at least the grace period, and probably longer until he accepts that you mean it. And you'll have to decide what "counts" for running the stopwatch.

    Try to talk to him about it on a day when he normally doesn't get Minecraft time, at at time of day when he is in a good mood. Do what you need to do to make that happen, even if it's hiring a neighborhood teenager to watch the baby for a couple of hours while you spend time with your older son. Ask him for his ideas before you introduce yours, and don't accept, "I promise not to scream" or "I'll try harder" as solutions.

    If you haven't read it, The Explosive Child is all about kids like this, and its system does work if you keep at it (give it at least a month before you give up).

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    The scream crying! Don't I know that one! All of mine do it, and I feel it's age appropriate only for the three year old, if at all, certainly not for our 5 yo kindergartner and the 9yo fourth grader. Yes, it's aggressive, and can impact your health, badly.
    Originally, our then 8, now 9yo had one hour of screen time every night when the little ones were in bed and it was a great bargaining tool: so it's 7.30 - homework all done? Violin practice all done? Okay, go play until 8.30 and then it's off to bed. If homework and or violin wasn't done: go do it, an when your done, play until 8.30, and it's not my fault if there's only 20 minutes left.
    DH thought it was too much screen time- he would have been fine if it had been more sketch up or scratch programming or writing his books, but a lot of what he did was watching stupid minecraft vids on YouTube, so now it's weekends only, and I miss my bargaining tool! (Lesson: make sure both parents are on the same page always...)
    My two cents: I'd say two hours is too long, I'd restrict it to one hour on the weekends and maybe spread out the two hours you're taking away as half hours on weekdays when you need it - it's great if I can offer an older kid some screen time in order to put the little one down for his nap, without feeling they're not doing anything but.
    And I'd make hard and fast rules about the screaming. He's allowed to be upset, even cry, but not scream. Scream minutes will be deducted from screen minutes whenever screen time is up next, and if they occur about something else they are deducted too. I have been thinking about the grace period a PP suggested but think that once a kid has started the screaming it may be hard to stop. Crying, moaning, yes, but zero tolerance on the screaming.
    I wish I could remember the parenting book I read about habit building - might have been "Parenting the spirited child" from Kazdin. Its a reframing thing: you are not punishing him for the screaming, but will reward every day that has had no screaming with the full screen time, or with whatever amounts left after deductions (which is another reason I like some screen time every day). Not a right taken away, but a privilege earned anew every day. The idea is that at some point the habit of screaming is overcome and he will not start again, even if the reward is taken away. I should be more consistent about these things myself, but sometimes it helps if you can just get rid of one issue.

    Last edited by Tigerle; 04/28/16 11:23 AM.
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    I've been through this. Much of this was solved by my DS growing older & getting more mature. Important thing to remember those who makes these games don't make them easy to put down. And judging how much time an enjoyable activity takes requires experience and maturity. These games are addictive and often you can't just "hit SAVE" any random time. I more had this problem with RPG console games than Minecraft. But it was NEVER good to walk up to my son at that age and say your game time is over now. Many games require finishing an activity within it before you can find a save location.

    I learned to make sure I gave my son warnings. Game time will be over in 10/15 minutes. Now you have 5 minutes, it's time to wrap things up and find a save location. You could also do this with an alarm clock, or clock tool on the computer/tablet. Being consistent and transparent helped. We also made a rule that if you thew a big fit (he was allowed to wallow in a normal tone of voice) games time might be taken away for a few days.

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    I've heard the screaming cry with a game that doesn't have enough save check points. We've had to say that game isn't allowed on days when you might not have time to reach a check-point. Minecraft, though, is easy to save and go, but we do have to give the 15 & 5 minute warnings, with verbal confirmation that they look at the clock and acknowledge the time. It's so easy to get lost in a building project.

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    I think that I have a somewhat different view. My DS8 gets hyper obsessed with different things all of the time. He has gone through phases where he is obsessed with certain books or series of books, or certain events, like the sinking of the Titanic. He has also gone through phases with various video games, or toys, like Legos. He went through a 'Where's Waldo' phase when he was little where he was even dressing up like Waldo at home. It was so cute!

    He went through a Minecraft phase where he built some truly amazing things. I didn't really see a problem with letting him build obsessively on Minecraft for awhile until the next thing caught his interest. I actually thought that it seemed rather educational and certainly encouraging of his creativity. For instance, he built a scene where he tried to recreate flags from around the world. By taking the time to recreate the flags block by block on Minecraft, he now truly has them embedded in his memory.

    I can't imagine telling my son that if he didn't get his flags built between 1-3pm on Sunday, he'd have to wait until the following Saturday to finish.

    He never wanted to play 'survival mode', which is a bit different.

    So my question would be, is he always obsessive like this or is this a totally new behavior that you've never seen before?

    And if you're truly against letting him have 'screen time', maybe you can get him books about Minecraft so he can read up on the game when he's not allowed to play. And give him a special notebook so he can start plotting his next creations.




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    Originally Posted by sesjas
    2) the scream-cry. This started when he was about 6 years old. It feels aggressive and directed towards us, his parents. It's difficult to not react to it, because it certainly feels as though he's the one punishing us! I am devoted, however, to allowing my son to have his feelings, and I try not to judge. But the scream-cry is very loud! VERY loud! And I worry that this type of emoting has more to do with expressing anger than sadness and that there's something fundamentally wrong that we've missed. Do any of you experience the same sort of crying?
    I have one "scream-cryer" (my daughter) and it's so horrible! I think of this more as a meltdown than a tantrum but whatever it is, it's awful.

    Agree, it's frustration not sadness per se. Also agree, kids have to learn some strategies for managing frustration so that it's not affecting everyone around them.

    When he is calm, what does he say about it? Can you get him to describe the physiology of his frustration?

    I wouldn't respond punitively, but might ask him what he suggests, to avoid the "crisis." You might mind-map it, kind of flow chart style, come up with some options. The obvious non-optimal result is no Minecraft, if it's having a negative effect on the entire family. When he is calm and rational, discuss the logistics.

    Also helpful is to teach some self-soothing phrases, and to also notice when he is able to not freak out, and comment on that. If he has a minor freakout, but gets it together without a major event, give positive feedback.

    I think when they are really immersed in something it just feels completely unjust to them to have it taken away, and it's really hard for some kids to make the shift (executive function). So some strategies for identifying what's going on inside of himself might help. "Oh, my brain doesn't want to switch gears, but something that helps is..."

    I'm not a huge fan of strict limits, but that's probably because I don't like it when someone tries to interfere with one of my current obsessions, either. Every family has to figure out what works best for them...the issue is it's much more difficult to take back freedoms once they've been issued than to do the reverse. smile


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