Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy giftedness and agreeable kids

Hi, I'm new to the board. I searched around to see if there was any writing on this topic already but didn't see any...feel free to point me to other threads or articles if you think any resonate.

DD is about to turn 7, first grade, public school. She hasn't been identified as gifted by her school or teachers, and while perhaps she isn't, it seems likely to me. I'm not sure of the exact meaning/scores of G/HG/PG but I myself am quite gifted, as is her dad, and she does show some indicators. She does math for fun on the weekends, and we ran out of web stuff to do, so I bought her a workbook for that--that's one example of how she seems gifted. We wrote a kids' book together and now we're making a website so she can showcase photographs of her rock collection...just stuff like that, that she comes up with on her own, and I just facilitate.

The school recently sent home a generic pamphlet on the gifted program and there was a checklist of traits which was adapted from these:

http://www.ode.state.or.us/teachlearn/specialty/tag/r5brightchild.pdf

The thing that strikes me is how personality-dependent some of these are. My DD is a very well-behaved and sensitive child: agreeable sometimes to a fault. For example, we moved her out of a classroom first semester of first grade because the teacher's very authoritarian style was too much for her. This lady's classroom management was godawful, and DD was bothered by much of how she treated the other kids (publicly threatening them with failing the grade, etc.--really terrible stuff), but in the face of this she became obsessed with making her own behavior perfect so she could help the class get their pajama party behavior reward--so much so that all her weekly goals centered around having perfect behavior and none around academics. She's much happier in her new class and actually talks about learning now!

Anyway, she doesn't like to hurt/upset anyone and is really bothered by anyone being angry with her. I don't ever really discipline her in regular ways, like time out or revoking privileges, because she's just way too sensitive. All I have to do is talk to her--remind her that how she is behaving is hurtful or unfair toward someone else and she stops, usually after crying. And this has been the case since 3-4. Because she is such a people-pleaser, trying to ferret out if she is bored in school is well-nigh impossible. I know she's reading at home at a higher level than they have her reading at school, but I sense immediately when I ask how school is, if it's challenging, that she's trying to figure out how I want her to feel--that if I want her to be bored, she'd say she's bored; if I want her to be happy with it, she'd say she's happy. So I mostly don't ask about school other than to say "what are you learning in school? how is everything going?"--and go from there.

I'm not even sure exactly where I'm going with this post except that a lot of the way some gifted kids seem to stand out--being bored, acting out, expressing a lot of displeasure, being defiant--is just not her personality. I'm not sure she'd be readily identified even if she were pretty gifted because her M.O. seems to be to be a good class citizen, work hard, and help people.

She has a great attitude, is a great kid, outgoing, funny, gentle, and exceptionally empathetic. I worry that she seems to have a lot of perfectionistic tendencies but so did I, in different ways, so I get it. Whether she is gifted or not, of course, in some sense doesn't matter, but if she is I don't want her overlooked. I guess I just wonder if these gifted lists are skewed toward malcontents? Squeaky wheel gets the grease kind of thing? I was more of a squeaky wheel myself... :-)

I wouldn't describe my DD9 as particularly empathetic, but otherwise, your child sounds very familiar.

One good way to get the information you're looking for is something you're already doing: asking questions in a way that doesn't require your DD to make a value judgement, just relate the facts, like "What did you do in school today?", rather than, "How did you like school today?" Over time, your DD will start to express her judgements along with them.

Apart from that, we found two markers that were very helpful in letting us know that there were major problems with DD in regards to school fit, so it might be helpful to look out for similar signs in your own DD:

- Major behavior changes at home. DD began having meltdowns over spilled milk (yes, literally). Any minor setback was blown out of proportion. DD started calling herself stupid. It escalated to her exploding as soon as she got off the school bus, and hitting her head against the wall.

- Hearing the teachers describe a child we did not recognize as our own. DD was described as compliant and polite (which we recognized), and also shy, quiet, and friendless (which was an alien child). It is true that DD is standoffish in first encounters, but sometime within the first few months she should have warmed up to someone, at which point she reveals her loud and goofy side.

I have two bright kiddos. While I have communicated to the school about each of them, I have ABSOLUTELY felt the need to advocate even more so for my DC whose personality is more like your DC's.

DS5 is quiet, but gets along well with his peers. He BLENDS and is compliant. I worry about a teacher not having any CLUE about what he already knows and how quickly he learns, so (so far) I communicate for him. This works well so far with the right teacher. I prefer to communicate objective measures, but this can be challenging when your DC is young and has not taken many tests or assessments. Communicating what books your DD is reading, or the types of math they enjoy could be one way to communicate where your DD is at in her learning.

My other DC is quite extroverted and outspoken. She doesn't try to blend and it is harder to "miss" her because of her personality. I guess she's a "squeaky wheel."

"Bright children" do not all have the same personalities - I am living with two examples of that.

My DD has a distinctly bimodal profile this way-- adults that she respects and doesn't know well-- she is VERY much like the OP describes. Perfect to a fault, and she is very-- so very-- good at determining what adults are expecting from her, and then delivering it.

On the other hand, authoritarian authority figures who are covering up their own insecurities or inadequacies? Oohhhhhh... well, when she is good, she is very very good, and when she is bad... OH MY.

Anyway. I digress.

Feel free to PM me if you like-- I have some experience with both the current and historical state of affairs re: GT ed in your state.


Let's just say that it varies tremendously locally-- and if you're in one of four or five districts statewide, you're in luck (kind of) and if not, well... not so much. State mandate, yes (with caveats-- there's not much 'differentiation' since that part of things isn't really spelled out) and there's no funding for any of it in any event.

DS is very compliant and pretty much always acts happy. I wouldn't say he's particularly sensitive, just extremely laid back. His last teacher used this as justification for not giving him work at the right level. She thought I was a tiger mom because I said he was bored. DS went to school and acted happy even though he was bored, so she thought I was crazy. She didn't care about his test scores or the fact that he could learn much faster than what she was teaching. All she saw was that he was a "happy" kid and therefore there was no need to do anything different. I told him that he HAS to advocate for himself. That I can't do it all for him. I do think that, like your DD, he also didn't want to offend her or make her mad, so he just didn't say anything. It was easier not to and to just go along with whatever she wanted him to do.

I was a very agreeable kid, as far as school goes -- and about half and half on that chart. I have one kid who is PG and anything but agreeable, and one who is very agreeable (school-wise) and still undetermined as to G.

My DD tries to be a people pleaser and is to a point but when she is done complying she is DONE:). She is HG to PG depending on the measure and likes to please adults but her stubbornness does get the better of her at times!

Welcome! Hoagies' Gifted Education Page may be of interest, especially Highly, Exceptionally, and Profoundly and What is Highly Gifted? Exceptionally Gifted? Profoundly Gifted? And What Does It Mean?

While the cut scores vary by test instrument,
Profoundly > Exceptionally > Highly > Moderately gifted.

HG+ is an informal, unofficial umbrella term for Highly gifted and above. It would include Highly, Exceptionally, Profoundly gifted.

In other words they don't have standardized meanings.

Your daughter sounds a lot like me when I was a kid and my people-pleasing perfectionist tendencies have held me back in more ways than I can count. To the extent that the people pleasing is an offshoot of perfectionism, I'd suggest reading up on the evils of perfectionism and doing what you can to nip it in the bud. The book Freeing Our Families from Perfectionism is one good place to start.