Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Super secret math pullout - so frustrated!

What would you do if your school had a super secret math pullout after the normal advertised pullout where this secret group lessons, the criteria for assessment, reassessment, appeal were not advertised? NOTHING!

I think all services and curriculum should be transparent. Am I crazy?

Do I get the principal involved? Don't they just support their staff? And do I take it higher than that? Am I becoming what they probably call one of those problem parents, right?

Hmm. Well, personally, if I wasn't getting information from the teacher, I'd send a polite message to the principal along the lines of "I'm confused; I heard about this program but can't get any information about it. Can you help me understand?"

There isn't much information in your message. What do you know about this pullout? Are you sure it's for GT kids and not lower-performing kids? Etc.

This sort of thing seems to go on at our school to a certain extent. For example, we have what seems a bit of a secret math group... When I asked ,at the end of last year, if there were advanced groups, ability grouping, math pull-out whatever in 2nd grade (there was allegedly none in 1st), I was given a pretty emphatic "no" and told that that stuff doesn't start till 3rd and that they would differentiate in the class if necessary. Then, a few weeks into school this year (3rd grade), I get a call from the teacher that DS would be in an differentiated math pull-out group (sigh of relief - one day where DS will be engaged and excited). It is not part of ATP (ie kids who are in ATP are not automatically in the group and kids who are not in ATP can be in the group). Ds tells me who is in it and who isn't... but I didn't know anything until after the fact. No one was informed that all the kids would be given a 'pre-test' and if they passed they get into the group and if they do not they do not. I am sure the school has it's reasons. I can partially understand - in this area, it would pretty quickly turn into a status thing and parents would probably get their kids extra tutoring just before in an attempt to get the child in the group jusy to be able to brag, etc. I'm just happy DS got in b/c he loves it. But it only meets once a week.

I was told by DS's teacher it is a fluid group. And this appears to be true. I notice they get these little extra credit sections on their test that they are allowed to do if they want. If the child passes that section, they can be added to the "group" Ds will say "oh we got a new person in our group today." However the general population of parents is not aware of this. I think they just think the "section" is merely for extra credit and not being used additionally to qualify kids for the math group. Perhaps your school has another opportunity coming up? I can relate if my DS who loves math and is desperate for more math stimulation found out there was a special math group that he was not permitted to be in he would be devastated.

Agreed. Some possible thoughts to consider for making a list of questions, for the teacher or principal:
1) What is the format of the program? (for example: Computer-based? Text book? Worksheets? Instructor-led?)
2) Is there a syllabus, class calendar, list of assignments, etc? (any guiding document?)
3) At what intervals (how often) is the program designed to admit new students? (each term, each year, etc)
4) How many pupils can the program accommodate (What is the current constraint for the class size - number of computers, etc? Is the constraint expandable? What is required to admit one more? two more? etc? Is there an absolute limit (non-expandable constraint)?)
5) Is there a waiting list? (Also, are any children leaving the group?)
6) Based on (test score criteria?) how many students are in line for consideration before ds? (wait list?)
7) Can DS have access to #1 & 2 above, to catch-up to where others are?
8) Alternate way to catch-up (study at home, use own resources, what are the identified targets/goals?
9) How soon can ds join the class?

After achieving placement for your child, remember what it felt for him to be left out. Working on principle, see what you can do to have the entry requirements for this and all other groups documented and accessible to all.

There was once a group tasked with designing a system, without knowing what each person's place in that system would be. This resulted in them building the most "fair" system possible, where each position had favorable aspects. I often think of that when GT advocacy issues come up... how different it can feel for a child to be on each side of the fence.

Good luck with this.

I have no helpful advice (However, looks like you have some).

We were told a similar 96% and our ds (1st grade) was 99%. The response we got was" the group in 1st grade is really small and there's kids smarter than our ds. Next year, the group will be bigger, so if he stays 99%; he should get in" what?? Mind you, we are at public school- a good district, but still.

Sorry- didn't see your latest post! That is EXACTLY how I am feeling! Coupled with my observations when I volunteer are that ds is "helping others", not doing work.

I really think I want to homeschool. I just need to convince dh...

On the plus side no homework means you can afterschool without having to waste time doing basic homework first.

While it is upsetting, this type of thing will repeat itself in areas other than school. I have seen my kids get shut out of sports stuff - some of which at least started in the rec league which is supposed to be open to all - and it is upsetting to them. Perhaps more upsetting to the adults (maybe not the kids) was when these adults who shut them out of the sports then asked them to guest play because the team needed their skills for a big tournament.

Just remind yourself that this is only for 20 minutes a week. You could easily do that at home. While it is upsetting to see your friend go and you don't, maybe these parents have some pull that you don't. I recall a really pushy attorney mom (not a slam against lawyers, some are wonderful) and the family moved here from out of state. The process to get into the gifted program here takes about six months, but her triplets were in the program a few weeks after school started. The prior state did not use the same screening as this one, so there is no way they went through the process. And while the kids were bright, they probably were not gifted (or not all three). A few years down the road, however, my kid (that the school refused to let into the gifted program initially) was in the accelerated classes, and they were not. It will sort itself out - 1st grade is very early in the game.

I would probably talk to the principal, but I am one of "those" parents now- HAHA. Didn't set out be to one, but that is what is has taken to get services for my kids.

Don't you just LOVE when they start in with "there are smarter kids." My response would be that is wonderful - what a wonderful group of peers, and I am glad they are getting the services, but what about my DS, who is also very smart (and qualifies based upon their criteria.) They need to explain to you why he not in the group if he qualifies for it.

Send an email to the teacher and gifted teacher asking the criteria and/or recapping your conversations and cc the principal on it. Does your child have an IEP? If so, ask for a team meeting.

Good luck!

BTDT, a possible reply might be "Yes, thank you... HE does NOT feel good where he is at"... follow-up with
1) a question about what she specifically observes that causes her to believe he is working at his optimal challenge level,
2) a link to an article or two about the downward spiral of underachievement which kids may enter, when not working with sufficient academic challenge

I believe a good advocacy word here would be insular; it is not emotionally charged and it may be more precise, because ironically it can take a lot of work to be insular.

Have you asked for this? Possibly if he is not in the class due to any constraint on the number of pupils, he could still have the assignment? This request could be point #3 above, in your response to the teacher. It shows that the motivator is the higher level work, not the perceived status of the class.

The teacher might not be "wrong" so much as there may not be continuous enrollment; the 99% to qualify may have been at a specific point in time (beginning of year score). While this may seem arbitrary, this why parents may wish to inquire about these things. Low-key and logical questions may guide the school's GT decision maker's thoughts along a new path and lead them to conclude for themselves that your son belongs in the program, that it is a good "fit".

That may be, and some guiding questions to the teacher may get her thinking in a new way about what may be the best "fit" or your son.

This may vary from school to school, at some point it would be good to ask and learn how it works at your school: who is on the GT decision-making team?

Sometimes this may be what it seems on the surface. Other times, we find that some had developed their advocacy skills and were able to create change while forging relationships.

Advocacy can be difficult. Like any challenge it can bring out the best in some people as they study the various strategies and learn to apply them with apparent ease. Read up on advocacy, and throughout the next decade you may be glad you did.

By giving your son this interpretation you may indeed crush his spirit. If that is not your desired result you may wish to give him hope for qualifying at the next interval. One possible approach is to gather more information (timing/constraints,etc) to manage his expectations with facts as suggested previously. One possibility may be to let this go gracefully (for example: it appears the class is closed, only children with 99% at the beginning of the year are in the class, you have made tremendous progress and will continue to do so at home...) You might add that you understand his disappointment and have done everything you could to explore the possibility, it just didn't work out, this time. These interpretations do not pass along bad thoughts about the teacher.