Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy am I being too pushy?

Sorry this is so long. Thanks for any thoughts.

My daughter switched from a private preschool to a public elementary school this year. She's an October birthday so she did two years of K at the private school.

When she entered 1st grade at the public school she was adding and subtracting two digit numbers, adding fractions, basic multiplication, and reading chapter books. They started out teaching two letter words, colors, and counting.

I was frustrated and said something to the teacher at back to school night, and she blew me off saying it was review and it would get harder. (review from 2 years ago for my kid) Then I emailed the guidance counselor, who didn't respond. Then I found out that if I put a request in writing they had to test her for gifted. Apparently this school doesn't normally test until 2nd grade and doesn't offer services routinely until 3rd. I didn't want to be a pain, I just wanted her to be given some enrichment or something- ANYTHING. I wrote the letter, and got a poorly written, misspelled letter back saying they would do a pre-evaluation to see if she required services, and if so THEN they would test her. I waited a month. Finally I emailed again, and heard that they had done some testing - a Slosson on which she scored 135 (but they look for 140 because they claim it's an inflated test), a math evaluation where she scored a 60% of the mid first year (which is everyday math, which includes stuff she had never seen before, but not addition and subtraction and fractions), and a reading assesment where she scored an 80% comprehension at the 3rd grade level. They weren't done with the evaluation though and would get back to me. Three weeks later I asked if they had any news and was told that based on her reading, they would do a further assessment, and I should receive a letter to sign and then her clock would start on their 60 days to test. That was another week ago, still no letter.

I am getting really annoyed. Her math has totally regressed. She refuses to add or subtract now. They spent a WEEK on tally marks. Her spelling test comes back with words like 'it'. She gets 100% on everything and then doodles all over the paper, presumably while waiting on the rest of the class. The only progress I have seen is that she's allowed to pick off of the library shelves now, and her teacher (who supposedly evaluates the library book choices for each child) is letting her bring home books like Harry Potter (which she is devouring).

I don't want to be THAT parent and bug them again. My husband and mother-in-law, who used to be a teacher, are not particularly supportive. They say to just let her be, that 'so what if she's not learning anything new in school, she's having fun and we can supplement her at home'.

I'm worried though. I want to make sure that I'm doing the right things and making the right decisions. My husband and I both tested as highly gifted (IQ 150) and I have no reason to believe that my daughter isn't at least above the gifted threshold. I spent most of my school career with a book on my lap, reading while the teacher was teaching and still came out valedictorian. My husband got bored and decided that school wasn't worth his time. He held that belief until after college and is just now back in graduate school.

So, do I keep pushing? Is there anything that the school can really do to help even if they test her and she tests as gifted? The gifted program for me was just playing games and getting out of class, for the most part. Should I just start looking at private schools? (homeschooling isn't an option)

Hi,

This is a very tough spot to be in. In fact I am there right now. DS is doing math and reading at least 2 grades above K, in some areas even more. I watched my son slowly become unhappy. He was repeatedly saying that he never learns anything. I kept pushing and I am sure I am now labeled THAT parent by at least his main teacher if not others. After yesterday I think it was worth it!

For myself I waited patiently, as you are, for them to assess at their schedule. It just didn't seem to be happening. I was lucky in that I wasn't seeing any regression in DS. By time PT conferences came around I had decided that I had given them enough time. I asked that both reading and math support be present at the conference. This turned out to be the catalyst that finally got him assessed on the end of K level skills. They assessed him Friday with the conference being Monday. You can read what went on and how it played out here .

In summary, by being pushy I got the attention of individuals who once they came into real contact with DS wanted to help. I would say one of things I learned was to have examples and pieces of work to back up your claims. Also, and this happened unexpectedly, get the principal involved. Everyone kept telling me contact him but I didn't want to step on any toes. I'm now wondering why I didn't just start there after the first blow off.

As for what they'll be able to do, I have no idea. I've come to realize that every school district is different and every school within that district is different. Our system doesn't offer GT until 4th grade, I believe, but each school has a GT resource teacher. It looks like they might have a little bit of leeway in determining what can be done with the students in the school that don't meet the normal parameters.

This is all still so new but I'm hopeful. Be pushy if you really believe in what you are asking for but try to be as polite and tactful as you can while doing it. I think that makes a big difference.

Good Luck

Pushy? Sounds more like the school or someone(s) at the school is being irresponsible. At the very least you have the right to hold them up to their promises.

First, try to find out if the school can offer her anything. Do they have a decent gifted program and is it for young kids? Are they willing to accelerate? Talk to some folks with older kids to find out as the school might not offer this information. Even in some great school districts in the Philadelphia area, the gifted program is weak (especially in elementary).

Second, realize that the process in PA can be long and drawn out (just need some patience as there are time limits the school must follow). In many districts (including where I live), the school does anything they can to discourage you during the testing process. My two older kids took pre-tests which suggested they would never hit the FSIQ of 130 or more, and we were encouraged to give up. We asked that they be tested (since we were already about 4 or 5 months into the process) and they both tested above 130. In PA, the school must let the student into the gifted program if FSIQ is 130 or more. Realize that the school might insist upon choosing the IQ test and administering the test (i.e. no outside testing accepted). I don't know much about our district's gifted program for young kids as my girls got the gifted label when they were in 7th grade so they would get automatic admission to a certain class in HS.

Are you in Philadelphia or nearby? I don't know much about Philadelphia schools other than my kids had a few classmates who lived in Philadelphia. This is when my kids were in elementary at a private school. Those kids left the private school after 4th grade and went to Masterman.

Masterman has the highest average SAT scores among Philadelphia public schools. Central has SAT scores above the national average, then pretty much all of the other public schools have below national average scores (Girls High included). Most kids enter Masterman in 5th grade; I understand it is tough to get in after 5th. I would certainly try for Masterman if I lived in the city.

If you live in the suburbs, then it depends upon where you are. There are some great districts with a lot of high achieving, bright kids. However, even in those districts, the classes might not be challenging until middle or high school. In one of the good districts, however, your child will have some intellectual peers, even if she is not challenged in class. As she moves into middle school, there is also the opportunity for academic competitions, clubs, sports, etc.

Of course, when my middle kid was 4 years old I declared that she was not college material, so this is coming from someone who was not looking at gifted programs or worrying about challenge when my kids were your child's age. Good luck, don't give up and offer her challenges and activities outside of school.

I'm in Philly too, and just want to put it out there that it is easier to homeschool here than many other places, I think. I work 10-20 hours per work while homeschooling because there is a wonderful drop-off day program for homeschoolers nearby. There is a nice group of gifted kids who go there, and the philosophy is very conducive to gifted free-range learning. Just thought I'd put it out there. PM me if you would like to know more.

I'd keep pushing (but tactfully) as well as after school her. Keep a portfolio of things you work on. Having lived the "highly gifted and never accelerated" childhood, I can attest to how damaging it is. Don't think about the school - think about what's best for your daughter.

Good luck

but maths is not just operations, its geometry, probability and more. I think you can only keep pushing if she can actually do the advanced stuff.

All Pink, you are definitely right... But Everyday Math uses such unique terminology and has such odd requirements for 'showing work' that its tests would not be measuring knowledge of math topics so much as exposure to the textbook series. All approved curricula in my state, or approved in Common Core, will have those other topics as well. If the assessment were not EM I would take it more seriously.

It can be difficult to prove advanced math ability unless you've been actively teaching, in any case. Unlike reading, children generally need concepts introduced if they are going to do well on assessments ahead of grade level. (When I saw my DD's assessments for a grade ahead, she bombed out on things like pints and gallons and "lines of symmetry," which was hardly surprising since we hadn't taught her that stuff.) I agree that EM is especially weird and in its own odd world.

To the OP: my suggestion would be to try to locate other parents with advanced or gifted kids and find out what, if any, accommodations their kids are getting. Or, do you know any teachers in the system personally? Sometimes you have to know what to ask for.

Yes... so if you haven't been teaching it, you have a kid who can't stay focused on the in class stuff because it's so boring, but can't demonstrate advanced ability because of lack of instruction-based acquired knowledge.

This is one of the reasons I "after school" my two in math (actually not DD9 anymore since she's in the math gifted pull out and can do stuff on-line at home). But DS8 - yes definitely. We do advanced stuff at home.

You advocate the best you can, and keep on advocating. Sometimes, though... you just have to get behind the wheel and drive the car yourself.