Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy 2 year skip (7/8)

Hello-
I'd like some input/ideas from others who have been there. Dd9 will be a 5th grader next year. She is currently in high ability programming and accelerated 1 year in math. Grades 5/6 are in an intermediate school. By 7th grade, she will be ready for Algebra 1. Her language/arts and reading scores great. I can't remember what her exact NWEA scores were, but she was 99th %ile in both reading/language arts. She has taken the WISC IV and had a 141 GAI.

We're looking ahead and have considered grade skips in the past. We did the Iowa Acc. Scale and she was a good candidate last year (not the highest ranking, but good) due to factors such as age, siblings, etc. We opted not to do it because the 4th grade teacher is a gifted specialist. It was the best decision we ever made because she has been WONDERFUL for dd.

In talking with school officials about our plans for next year, I have been told twice (off the record) that 5th/6th will be fine, but 7/8 will be miserable for her. The MS principal does not believe in homogeneous grouping or differentiation and she will get NO acceleration or support. High ability programming there just consists of math acceleration and their growth on NWEA is not good. I have been advised, if she is ready for Alg 1 as a 7th grader, to move her from 6 to 9. So, she would start her freshman year after 6th grade.

I'm interested in hearing from folks who have made a similar move. Dd does have a few good friends, but generally sticks out like a sore thumb socially no matter where she is. We're trying to look ahead to future plans since she is moving from Elementary this year.

Thanks for any input you may have. I know that the middle school years are tough any way you look at it!

My first advice would be, "don't cross the bridge until you come to it." You've got 2 more good years before you need to worry about a bad year, right?

It's also not clear to me why they're suggesting a full 2-year grade skip to get her Algebra 1, when the middle school does do math acceleration. Or are they saying, "as long as she's ready for Algebra 1, which is likely to be the sticking point, may as well accelerate in everything"?

I will say that a 9th grader taking Algebra 1 with 9th graders is not going to be in a high-performing classroom. That schedule won't get you Calculus before graduation in most schools. (Our district is Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Geometry, Trig / Math Analysis, then Calc. So if you don't take Algebra 1 in 8th, you don't get Calc in 12th.)

I'd look at the other stuff offered in 7th / 8th, too, and whether they're required or helpful to getting into the higher-performing classes in high school.

AlexsMom-
The Algebra not being a high performing classroom was an issue I was thinking about as well... I teach in the high school she will be coming to. I think the Algebra 1 class at the middle school does not perform very well or grow much in their overall test scores. They put far too many kids in there who are not truly ready, so they can't move at a very quick pace. The person I was talking to was suggesting that high school alg 1 would be a better fit for her.

I agree that we don't need to cross that bridge until we come to it... It was brought up as we were considering what to do for 5/6. She honestly needs acceleration in language arts. She reads at a hs level. The psych did a vocabulary equivalency when she had her IQ testing. At age 7 she was at 17.4 years. This year they've had her reading novels and doing her own thing.

As a side note-
I teach at the high school she would be coming to. Our principal has indicated that he would love to have her early, and we would be as flexible as necessary- testing out of stuff, taking some college/some high school, etc. I know she would be looked out for. I'm wondering if she could be in high school for 5 years to get her extra math and take some extra electives, etc?, while taking some college courses concurrently? We have a lot of dual enrollment. I don't really like the idea of sending her "off to college" at 16. Acceleration also makes me wonder about things like driving, dating, etc. I've just been thinking and trying to get ideas.

Thanks!

Why can't she start Algebra on her own?

If she is that ahead verbally and that motivated, then she would likely be able to work through Pre-algebra this summer and then do Algebra on her own next fall. Then keep moving through the sequence. Some kids are able to do Alg 1,II, and geometry in a year on their own. If she skips 7th to HS then she would go into Pre-Calc as a Freshman then do Calc as a 10th grader.

Math is cumulative. If she can handle a rapidly accelerated pace, then she should just keep going. Then do dual enrollment. A mentor at the college level can arrange appropriate materials for math.

As for HS electives, chem, bio, physics - if they go through AP will work. But she may run out of things to take. I exhausted all my STEM electives at my HS by my Jr year.

Here is a success story along the lines.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/commun...dy-heading-to-mit-1406226.html?sort=desc

My dd only skipped one grade (5th), but some of your posts have me wondering as to how old your dd is for grade. You mentioned her age being one of the factors that kept her in the 'good' vs. 'excellent' category on the IAS. But then, if she'd be 16 at graduation after skipping two grades, I'm thinking maybe she isn't super young for grade.

Is there any possibility of a single grade skip and a different school for the last year of middle school or subject acceleration to the high school for part of the day? The level of achievement you describe is right about where my dd's was as well. She will be graduating high school at 16 too.

My biggest concerns from what you mention in regard to the dual skip are related to Algebra I in 9th grade as others mentioned and whether she'd be 12 or 11 when she started 9th. My dd was 12, but turned 13 shortly thereafter. I also think that it was beneficial to have had a few years to acclimate to being that much younger than the other kids before starting high school. Acclimating to two grades of a skip all at once and being put in a position where your grades now matter for college admission might be a little overwhelming all at once.

It really does sound like a grade skip would be a good idea for your dd and I understand why the 7th/8th grade years are ones you'd be considering. I'm wondering if a compromise might be to have her skip just 7th and, for that one year with the lesser teacher(s) in 8th, have her take a few subjects at the high school such as algebra I since you mention that it might be a better class at the high school. Is that something you can advocate for?

See if she can be on the books as a 7th or 8th grader, and spend her days on the High School campus taking High School level classes...that would be ideal.

I agree that a wonderful teacher can make all the difference, but it sounds to me like she's going to need 'something more' in LA even next year. LOL - If she can keep her grade designation and move to the High School maybe let her take the '9th grade Algebra' a year before she is ready so that the pace doesn't drag her down too much. The key thing to ask is, if the HS will let her be a 7th grader taking HS subjects, if the grades will follow her to college or just be 'middle school' grades, like any other kid in your district taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade.

I hope this makes sense. She could be an officially 'Homeschooled 7th grader' who is auditing High School classes for a year or two, so you give the grades based on her classwork. That way you don't have to worry about her being 'kicked out' of High School without Calculus before she is ready.

HTH,
Grinity

She is young... She has a late summer birthday. She will have just turned 12 starting 7th grade if we stay the normal course. So she would be 12 really for the entire school year. I really think the best path might be subject acceleration in LA, perhaps busing her to the high school par time, at least until she completes Alg 1 at the middle school. After Alg 1, she could take Alg 2 honors at the high school and move on from there. Right now, as long as they are willing to keep her happy for 5/6, I feel like developmentally that's where she needs to be. There is one other little boy a year ahead of her who is probably going to skip 8. He's been somewhere else for 7th grade and his mom will not put him at the middle school. I think we'll watch closely how things go with him!

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I am surprised at how old she is, without the skips. I am looking at a grade 4 skip, which is what I did. DD has a Sept birthday and then will turn 9 in grade 5, my age in that grade. With another skip in high school (I am looking at accelerated gifted schools so skips really are not necessary) she would be 15 for college. Just turning 15 after starting college.

But since the high school I am anticipating has dual enrollment, she would have a taste of college already. I think that helps.

Fall birthday, so before she turned 5. I am counting on her age as she enters college, not what she turns during the fall. If she just does one more skip, after grade 4. I am also leaning as not doing the skip, since the school I am hoping for, has the dual enrollment at a top university. And it would also help with her dance program, staying in high school.

With dual enrollment, the options really broaden and you don't have to push for early college, since they are in college while in high school, right. Best of both worlds.

I also agree, Algebra is 7th grade?

Ren