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    #112113 09/20/11 08:52 AM
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    LNEsMom Offline OP
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    Since I am new here, I have to say how impressed and inspired I am by the way many of you advocate for your children within educational institutions that can be so rigid and disinterested in children's potential. So I am asking for advice and I guess some encouragement in speaking up for my DS8 who just started 2nd grade.

    As I read the articles about the negative consequences of school being too easy, I am starting to feel like I should take a stronger stance regarding my son's math education. IMO, he has not been challenged AT ALL in math since starting school. He either already knows it, or picks it up within 2-3 attempts. His homework takes about a minute or less to complete and most of the time I don't even make him do the "practice" activities because it just isn't a good use of his time outside of school. For example, his home work last night was to answer 10 single digit "doubles" addition facts and then have someone quiz him for 10 minutes on those facts. Why would I spend 10 minutes on this? He answered the written questions and I quizzed him briefly, but included double and triple digit "doubles" which were also no challenge to him.

    While part of me appreciates how little homework has to factor into our evenings, I am a bit concerned that the lack of challenge will result in problems later when things get more complicated. He is already a perfectionist and gets very frustrated with things that don't come easily to him (he has fine motor skill issues so writing can be a challenge).

    So, do I continue to leave things alone and wait for the advanced math program which starts in 3rd grade? Or do I say something now? And if I say something, how do I go about it in a way that won't annoy the teacher but will get results? I have briefly mentioned at curriculum night that he could do more, but she didn't seem concerned and says she differentiates within the classroom.

    Thanks for any advice!

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    I personally am not a fan of homework, so am happy when the teacher assigns none. (I also ignored the "please have your kid do 20 minutes of reading and 10 minutes of either math or spelling practice each night" request from last year's teacher. I figured as long as she could read, spell, and do the in-class math, we'd met the spirit of the requirement.)

    That said, DD has free-choice reading and free-choice math as options (with TV / video games / free-choice computer time also on the list) virtually every evening, and often will choose to split her time and do both reading and math. So she gets as much challenge as she chooses at home.

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    LNEsMom Offline OP
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    I totally agree with you on the homework, AlexsMom! Plus my son is involved in alot of other activities like multiple sports and chess, so homework has always been a bit of an annoyance. lol

    I certainly don't want him to have MORE homework. My concern is that if the homework is representative of the in class work, then he is not being challenged at all. He doesn't really complain because he likes being able to do it with no effort and I think he enjoys some of the games they do with dice and dominoes etc just because he likes to play games. I had considered doing Singapore math with him at home, but that would be the same as giving him more homework, which I don't want to do.
    I just feel like he should be getting more out of math class at school, you know?!

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    For a kid who picks things up quickly, the class is never going to move fast enough to challenge them.

    My DD likes math, but is not intuitively mathy, and she considers online math to be a treat, not homework. But I leave it up to her how much or how little she does, and sometimes I'll sit at one computer and do a challenging-for-me topic while she does a challenging-for-her topic, and we'll see who gets to "proficient" first.

    Be aware that if you teach ahead (as opposed to working on problem-solving skills that use grade-level math for the actual calculations), you're exacerbating the "school isn't challenging" problem. We've got a grade-skip behind us, and are not opposed to additional subject acceleration, so aren't worried so much about the consequences of DD choosing to work ahead.

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    And if I say something, how do I go about it in a way that won't annoy the teacher but will get results? [/quote]

    It is difficult not to annoy the teacher. When we ask for more differentiation we are essentially saying to the teacher we don't think you are doing enough for our child. Probably is annoying That said, in most cases the teacher will get over it. Once she sees the child actually doing the more advanced work and succeeding, any decent teacher will support that child because DC also makes the teacher look better. My point is, be respectful but don't be afraid of being annoying.

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    LNEsMom Offline OP
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    Thanks Eleanor05, even as I wrote that I was thinking "Do I really care if I'm annoying?" lol But honestly, both my parents were teachers and I don't think that they would be annoyed if they had a child breezing through the curriculum and the parent asked them to challenge that child more. Of course, they probably would have reached this conclusion on their own! lol

    I guess I am trying to think of how to frame the request that avoids any implicit criticism of the teacher and figure out a way to get her "on my side", so to speak.

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    Thanks kcab, that is good advice. I think because of some things that occurred last year I have steeled myself for a somewhat adversarial encounter, but I don't want to let what happened in first grade color what happens this year. Trying to have a fresh start, but at the same time I don't think I advocated as well as I could have last year and want to do better for him this year.

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    LNEsMom, have you considered requesting subject acceleration for math to another grade, instead of differentiation within his 2nd grade classroom? Provided the school is open to it and schedules work out, this can be an easier approach for the teacher because she doesn't have to differentiate, she can just send him off to another classroom, and it can be a better solution for your DS because he's learning a curriculum that ideally addresses his current math skills.

    Regarding how to approach the teacher, I'd recommend providing your observations of your DS's math skills, and compare them to the 2nd grade math curriculum and to the 3rd or 4th grade math curriculum. If your DS is ahead of grade level, your comparison will clearly show that. The result is that you avoid criticizing the teacher's teaching style, and instead focus on the appropriate grade level curriculum.

    The next step is to request that a math assessment or the end of year proficiency test for 2nd (or 3rd) grade math be administered to him. That way, the school will have their own objective assessment. If he has any gaps, ideally the school can work with him or you can hire a tutor for a brief period to close the gaps, and he could then move on to the grade he should really be in for math. It's not always this easy depending on the school, but it's the ideal in my mind.

    Last year, we approached DS's K teacher early in the year with a list of DS's math skills, and compared those to our school district's 2nd and 3rd grade math curriculum. He was clearly working two years ahead, and we framed our request stating that we wanted him to be able to work at the level he was capable of. It wasn't a reflection on his teacher in any way - it was an objective comparison of his skills to the curriculum. The GT teacher did a math assessment, and it showed that he needed acceleration, and his teacher moved him up to 1st grade for math. We're working through scheduling issues and more placement issues again this year in 1st grade (trying to get another grade acceleration for math), and I'm fighting for the scenario I presented earlier in my post.

    I personally am not a huge fan of going into more depth in math at the current grade level. If my DS understands 3rd grade math concepts, why does he need to go into more depth on 1st grade math concepts?

    Also, I think that you had asked in an earlier post whether you should get him tested through outside testing (I may be mixing you up with someone else). I think most parents on this forum advocate not testing unless there's some real need to. I didn't find this forum till 9 months after we tested our DS, and I'm still glad we did it. It helped me feel confident advocating for his needs, and I've been able to reference it in appropriate situations with teachers to help back up my observations/requests, even though our district doesn't accept outside testing. We also did outside math achievement testing at the end of last year, which has made me more confident in pushing for additional assessment and acceleration this year. It is expensive, but has been worth it for us. Excuse the tome, I hope it's of some help!

    Last edited by Coll; 09/20/11 09:02 PM. Reason: clarification
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    Thanks Coll, I am going to have to see if I can get a hold of the specific curriculum. So far, we have only been given a really general overview and the specific expectations for 1st quarter, which he has been able to do since at least kinder. Based on rereading these expectations, I think he may in fact be getting slightly more advanced work but it is still quite easy for him. I don't have the 3rd/4th grade curriculum, I will have to see if I can get a hold of them.

    I am not sure if grade skipping in math is a possibility. They do have an advanced math program that starts in 3rd and is based on standardized tests from 2nd. But that seems like a long time to wait! lol

    I think it makes great sense to take a look at the curriculum and then see if I can get him assessed at the more advanced levels. And yes, I was the one asking about outside testing and I can relate to what you said about it. I feel like going in with some "objective" information will make me feel more comfortable asking for things and perhaps make my case more convincing. And my lack of trust in the schools makes me want to have a second opinion so to speak.

    My other issue with his math education is that they use Everyday Math, which seems to burn a lot of energy making some things that are easy seem more complicated so that there is little time for more complicated concepts. Also, as I wrote in a previous post, (not sure if this is school specific or part of the EDM approach), each unit has some skills in which students are supposed to be "secure" in, some that they should be "developing" and others that they are just "beginning". But DS has often been assessed at "developing" when he answered all questions in the post-test correctly because that is the expectation for that quarter! So IMO they are not even assessing him correctly at this point.

    OK, vent over! smile Thank you for your comments Coll, they were very helpful.

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    You said your DS was 8 and just starting 2nd grade. I assume this means his birthday was either at or near the age cut-off for his grade and that he is one of the older children in his grade. If this were the case for my gifted child, I would absolutely consider advocating for acceleration. (Unfortunately for my children, 2 of the 3 are already the youngest in their classes, which makes acceleration a much more difficult choice.)

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