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    geofizz Offline OP
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    Subtitled: What happens when geofizz starts losing sleep over all this.

    Background: DS was tested for whole grade acceleration last week by the school psychologist. This was suggested by the school's principal and vice principal in an "intervention" meeting to determine what to do about DS' math needs. DS is an old-for-grade 6 year old kindergartener in a redshirt heavy district. Kindergarten is half days in our district. Going into the meeting we have KTEA-II scores from 8/11 with a 160 in math concepts and applications. After stalling, they placed him in 2nd grade STMath (online program) which he completed in 8 week's time on his own time (no class time given). The most recent intervention meeting was scheduled because I expressed concern about proceeding in this on line manner as it will make it harder and harder to introduce him to classroom learning of mathematics.

    Much to my surprise, the principal suggested whole-grade acceleration, then the vice-principal suggested placement in one of the school's 1/2 classes to do 1st grade everything else and 2nd grade math.

    The school psychologist did WISC-IV and WJ-III achievement. He gave me WJ-III scores for his current (grade? age? not sure), showing:

    Brief Achievement: 146 99.9
    Brief Reading: 133 99
    Brief Math: 151 >99.9 (subtest applied problems 168)
    Brief Writing: 130 98
    Academic Skills: 139 99.5
    Academic Apps: 142 99.8
    subtest vocabulary: 88th percentile

    Then he took the same Raw/W scores and produced the report for DS in 1.6 (receiving grade if done immediately)

    Brief Achievement: 124 94
    Brief Reading: 143 82
    Brief Math: 139 99.5 (subtest applied problems 145)
    Brief Writing: 105 63 (low subtest spelling 95)
    Academic Skills: 117 87
    Academic Apps: 125 95
    subtest vocabulary 71st percentile

    To which he tells me that a skip is not warranted, and we should consider subject acceleration.

    Suspecting the anti-skip school psychologist is blowing smoke (if he has to be 95% in the receiving grade, wouldn't he still be just as bored there?), I borrowed the 1st edition of the IAS from the university library. On the Academic Ability and Achievement section, I used his scores to give him 12 points (4 from IQ). I'm guessing some here, because the achievement categories are Vocabulary, total reading, total math, total language, social studies, science, Other.

    So that should mean that we should proceed with the rest of the scale as it's >10 points. He gets most of the remaining points, and totaling it most conservatively, I give him a minimum of 51 points, a maximum of 61. This means he's a good candidate for a skip.

    BUT, here's the BUT: I've got the 1st edition. The 3rd edition is evidently a bit different, with an additional criterion? I'm looking here in Dottie's post, where there now appears to be an Aptitude section based on above level testing.

    Originally Posted by Dottie
    AAAA stands for “Academic Ability, Aptitude and Achievement”. This is the score that needs to be 10 before proceeding. It should measure scores in three different areas. Scoring from the 2nd edition follows:

    Ability (IQ):
    115-129 2 points
    130-144 4 points
    145+ 6 points

    Aptitude (above level testing):
    Subjects <50th, no points
    Subjects 50th-74th, mid range points
    Subjects >75th, maximum points

    Various points here, with different totals depending on the test used. I believe there is a maximum you can earn in this category too, forcing a need for points in the other areas. Ideally this should be several grade levels, though at K it’s hard to define. The cuts used by CTY are +2 years for 2nd-4th, +3 years for 5th-8th, and +4-5 for 7th and 8th grades (SAT). I would count what your daughter had as +2, so it should fall within the mid range for aptitude earning her at least some points. Does she have IQ data?

    Achievement (grade level):
    <89th percentile, 0 points
    90th-94th 1 point
    >94th 2 points

    Again, multiple points can be earned for multiple subject areas. Ideally all three aspects should be considered, and personally I wouldn’t go very far without strong IQ data. This is the score though that counts for the AAAA>10 to move on.


    Question 1Does this change anything? DS still has the sky-high scores for in grade. He's BORED. The weakest bit will be spelling, something for which he's not received any instruction.

    I can't figure out how far "above-level" the tests should be. The manual doesn't say how far. The example in the manual "Jenny" actually shows no above grade level testing, and they arrived at a 2 year acceleration on a child with a nearly identical profile!

    Question 2 what test sections can be used for the different categories? The examples seem to draw points from "other" categories that appear to be subtests of the same achievement test.

    Question 3 Why does it seem as though the IAS encourages double counting of things? Are you really supposed to take one test, the WJ-III, and run it for two different ages, and then potentially use the data in two places? That seems like it's cheating or oddly back handed.

    Additional info:
    We have documented a huge amount of growth since August 2011 (KTEA-II) post here, and we have AIMS Web scores that put his phonological processing in January 2012 in the >99.5 percentile (compare to Aug scores) . His written expression in August was an 87, and was limited to writing letters. Now it's a 130 on the WJ 7 months later, showing DS' response to being given access to education.

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    I don't have the book in front of me, but my interpretation is that "above level" means "receiving grade," ie. your second set of test results.

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    I'm hoping Dottie or another test expert pops in, but when you test someone on WJ-III and WISC for a grade skip, you do NOT plop there scores into the next age/grade level; you use the scores of your kid in his grade level. I believe that your kiddo, at age 6, would be old enough for those tests.

    Does your school have a copy of the IAS? Which version? If they don't, I would bring in your worksheet on your version, and ask them how they could come up with such a different result.

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    My DS's school, at the the time of the skip, used NWEA MAP score for the above level testing. It wasn't one of the "recommended" IAS tests, but since they had norms (not grade equivalents) for all the way up through 12th grade, the school was happy substituting it. Before they would consider a skip, they wanted to see him scoring 95th percentile for the receiving grade.

    I don't have our paperwork anymore but I'm pretty sure they used IQ for Ability, NWEA tests for Aptitute and both WIAT and current NWEA scores for his grade level for Achievement.

    As for whether not they would be bored, I've seen varying research. In general, the idea is that you want the child to still be in the top 15% (give or take) of the receiving grade. You do not want to skip a child who will be suddenly struggling and the general estimate is to skip them only if they will still be in the top of the receiving grade classroom.


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    Absolutely Dottie! And even with kids that test in the 95th percentile for the receiving grade, there is still an adjustment period. I found in particular for my DS, who did a mid-year skip from 1st to 2nd, that the sheer volume of writing was difficult. While he was easily able to bubble in tests (or click on the right answer on the computer), producing the volume of work was difficult. He still tested at 95th percentile for the grade ABOVE the receiving grade, but there is simply no way he would have physically been able to keep up with the "work product" of a two year skip.

    My thoughts have always been that a child who finishes the year with 85th is still going on to the next grade, without a doubt. So the skipping child will just have to face a little challenge to catch up. Isn't that the point anyway?

    All that said, my DS is now a 4th grader on paper, homeschooling at 6th grade across the board with 7th grade math and 7th grade writing ability and high school level reading material. But he still prints like a 3rd grader. He'll always be a conundrum for a classroom teacher!

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    geofizz Offline OP
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    Wow, thanks for all the responses.

    Dottie, so you're telling me that the WJ isn't to be used at all for the achievement or aptitude part?!? Is there a listing of the tests that are ok for kindergarteners? The school gives the TerraNova to second graders in April, which is the first test they give in the district.

    Is there anywhere in the manual itself that lists appropriate tests or explains that WJ isn't appropriate?

    FSIQ=141 with no weak area (all index 126-141; no subtest scores under 13)

    Oh, good, grief.

    The state requires use of the IAS, though it's not that clear if it requires the district follow the recommendations. So the school is familiar with the IAS, but I wouldn't put it past them to purposely misinterpret or misapply it.

    DS has taken the district's internal math test (scoring 2nd to beyond 2nd grade in October -- before the 10000 math puzzles of STMath), and DRA at the ceiling (limited to 1+ grade level). Besides that, you can see all the other tests he's taken.

    Honestly, before going into this, I was clear that math had to change. I was frustrated with the pace of language arts instruction, but didn't seem to think a change was so needed. The principal convinced me! The test scores sealed the deal, particularly in light of how much progress he's made this year. Goodness, he was mostly deaf for 8+ months of his first 2 years and severely language delayed. The VCI (126) is way above the equivalent verbal index when he was discharged from speech therapy 18 months ago (110). While we still have lingering doubts about speech quirks, they now seem more and more a consequence of unusual speech topics and vocabulary.

    Now what? We have a meeting scheduled now for the 15th to do the IAS and decide on a change. That's the last day before spring break, after which there are 10 weeks left in the school year. What I was previously feeling of an urgency to make a change because of a marginal kindergarten teacher, I'm not wondering if it's just grossly inappropriate instruction. The poor kid says he loves school -- he just wishes he could learn something while there.

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    geofizz Offline OP
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    Another way around my question: Is the Aptitude bit even necessary if we're getting >10 points with achievement and IQ?

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    Originally Posted by Dottie
    That said, I do think my own skip experience had a similar thought process. IIRC, they tried to stop the grade skip based on one stand alone English grade "only" being at the 86th. The rest of his scores were >95th for the receiving grade, with math even higher.
    That's right about where my dd13 was when she skipped. She was tested on grade level achievement right after skipping and her math scores were right around low 90s if I recall correctly (that was her stand out low) and she was still 99th for reading. I don't think that they tested anything else.

    I was going to say, though, that my recall was that the IAS isn't very specific as to how above grade level the aptitude test needed to be. Dd took the EXPLORE. She was in 4th and skipping 5th, so it was 4 grades above level and she certainly wasn't in the 95th on any part of it. She was close on one or two parts, but there were parts (math again) where I can't recall if she even came in average for an 8th grader.

    Originally Posted by geofizz
    Another way around my question: Is the Aptitude bit even necessary if we're getting >10 points with achievement and IQ?
    I'd say, "no." My dd's skip was approved by the district before we even had the above level test scores in b/c she clearly qualified on the rest of it and had the 10+ pts without it, like your ds.

    With an IQ in the range you've got plus him being old for grade, I can't imagine that a skip would be a poor idea unless there are other social issues. It sounds like they are setting an impossible hurdle.

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    I'm looking at it now.
    For Achievement, the listed tests are:
    Stanford Diagnostic Math
    Stanford Reading
    Woodstock Johnson III Achievement
    CAT
    ITBS
    Other


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    geofizz Offline OP
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    Ok, so for those familiar with the scoring, how many points do you give him for the AAA section?

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