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    Iucounu Offline OP
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    ColinsMum, thank you for taking the time to give such detailed, sound advice. I had seen your other thread before-- I think it might've actually been the first one I added to my watched-topics list. I just went back and reread it carefully. I love the What To Do When Stuck rules, and the thing I like best about your approach to your son's learning is that you strive to keep him challenged with tough work that's just within his grasp.

    I think my son will probably need some periodic teacher input, and I don't think he'd be likely to interrupt her to say he needed help with something he didn't know. I don't think they're likely to stick him in a corner with the computer during math anyway, because of their apparent beliefs about socialization, etc. (with which I tend to agree, although it does present an additional constraint that seems to make the situation impossible to resolve perfectly), as well as possible reluctance to have him hog the computer too.

    I still haven't had a chance to discuss things with his teacher from next year. She may also want us to assume more of a teaching role with math, correcting homework, etc., but I don't know. I tend to doubt it at this stage, since it sounds like they're not planning to have him work alone. I think I will do what you say, and see how well the cluster group works this year, since you're right that the fit is as good as it's going to get for a while.

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    I think I'd try to be more general than that: I'd emphasise that the situation can change fast with him and that you'll need to review the situation frequently and not necessarily on a predictable schedule. Certainly, don't agree now on the exact material he'll be doing in the autumn unless you're sure it's currently a long way ahead of him! We had a meeting in the summer in which we discussed generalities, and agreed to have a meeting to discuss details at the beginning of the following year.
    I think this is great, practical advice which I will follow. I'll probably start by asking how often reassessments will happen, who we can approach with ongoing issues with level/pace, etc. The answer will surely be the teacher, but these questions will either get everyone in the same frame of mind on flexibility, or at least prompt a needed discussion.

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    Are you and DW happy to do the actual teaching and planning of his maths? If so, then doing teaching at home and "homework" at school may be the way to go, practically speaking. Don't overestimate the stage at which many elementary school teachers start to feel insecure with maths themselves, by the way.
    I have been reluctant to do it much, mostly over fear that I'll give him a bad conceptual framework on which to build. So his math "instruction" for some time now has mostly taken the form of me pointing him at a task on the IXL website and turning him loose, and just answering specific questions if he asks them. That's not a good solution, though-- that website doesn't feature any lessons at all, and though it has explanations when you miss a question, they seem to be pretty poor at teaching concepts. I think I'm going to be forced to get over my reluctance.

    Because of that, I recently bought Singapore Math for third and fourth grade. As far as I can tell from IXL, he's mastered third grade stuff except possibly for some weights and measures, to which he simply hasn't been exposed much and which I don't care about. I bought third grade because I wanted to make sure he didn't have any gaping holes in his knowledge, and we could just skip the parts he knows. So far he's going through it fast and will be ready to do the fourth grade in short order. Singapore Math seems to be a mixed bag-- I'm not in love with the way some of the topics are presented, but others are great-- but in any event I think it's far better than not having a curriculum or any lessons.

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    Why would he be loaded down if learning spellings is quick for him? Is it that they expect spelling homework that involves writing?
    You make good points. It's not just spelling, actually, but vocab too. They seem to do some repetitive reading and vocab stuff in our school. For the next year, I think I will try not to worry too much about his time being wasted in the classroom. He's excited about the skip and it will probably take a while for that excitement to wear off. Time spent on below-level stuff at home will hopefully be minimal, and they might go for giving him advanced vocab work at school.

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    You can offer to take on any part of the work involved in setting and marking special work for your DS that you feel happy to do and they feel happy to give up.
    I'll just make a general offer along those lines. We're happy to do anything.

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    I don't think doing number theory in Alcumus is going to help by leaving lots of third and fourth grade topics untouched! You do pretty much have to be able to do arithmetic to do number theory
    That's the thing. Sort of the way people talk about learning to read enabling reading to learn, I mostly want to get him to a point where his math knowledge enables deeper exploration of whatever interests he may develop. Right now he shows beginning interests in electronics, robotics, programming, etc. where math may help a lot. In addition if we go too long between math sessions, he asks me for math because he misses it. I just don't want to stunt his growth.

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    Lol, but no.
    Well, I've already got the squeaky shoes. He will just have to learn to enjoy them, as they are past the returns period.


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    Iucounu Offline OP
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    We went to the end-of-May meeting, where it was decided to skip DS5 to first for the rest of the year, and follow up with a final meeting this coming Friday to make sure everything was copasetic. The decision was made only after some discussion of possibly have him do a month of split 1st/2nd at the beginning of next year, over worries about him being able to keep up with the physical writing.

    In addition they said they were worried about his performance on something called the end of year "writing prompt", since apparently he was choosing in class to write fewer words but taking forever to make sure he formed each letter perfectly. After the meeting, the wife and I told DS5 to speed it up and make sure he put as much detail as possible in each sentence for a while.

    Apparently they had the writing prompt today. When asked how it went, DS told us that he thought it went all right. We asked what it was like, and he gave an example of one of the questions, along the lines of "What invention would you like to make?" His answer: a terraforming machine, which he would use to terraform Mars, etc. so humans could live there. Hopefully that is up to first grade standards. laugh

    The plan for next year is for him to be in a classroom and grouped with the brightest second graders, and to get special problem-solving enrichment for math, and some sort of enrichment for writing, details still to be determined. We have worries about him being bored, but are keeping our fingers crossed that things will work out fine. And it's undeniably better for him than winding up in first next year, learning further how to add single digit numbers.


    Striving to increase my rate of flow, and fight forum gloopiness. sick
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    Originally Posted by Iucounu
    Apparently they had the writing prompt today. When asked how it went, DS told us that he thought it went all right. We asked what it was like, and he gave an example of one of the questions, along the lines of "What invention would you like to make?" His answer: a terraforming machine, which he would use to terraform Mars, etc. so humans could live there. Hopefully that is up to first grade standards. laugh

    LOL! Great answer! Hopefully next year is easier on you all!

    Last edited by Amber; 06/15/11 06:51 PM.

    I can spell, I just can't type on my iPad.
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    Originally Posted by Iucounu
    The plan for next year is for him to be in a classroom and grouped with the brightest second graders, and to get special problem-solving enrichment for math, and some sort of enrichment for writing, details still to be determined. We have worries about him being bored, but are keeping our fingers crossed that things will work out fine. And it's undeniably better for him than winding up in first next year, learning further how to add single digit numbers.
    Best Wishes, This sounds like a good plan 'for now' and hopefully he'll be 'close enough' for a while!

    Love the terraforming story. Yes, things really do develop once the typing skill arrives.

    Smiles,
    Grinity


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    Iucounu Offline OP
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    Thanks, peeps. The meeting went well, and it sounds like he's integrating pretty well, though apparently he has a tendency to wander absent-mindedly sometimes. The blind scoring from the writing prompt seemingly hadn't been done yet. It will take some time to unwind, but it does seem to be going well. Our DYS family consultant will also be offering help to them soon, which should smooth things out even more. Thank you to everyone here.

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    Iucounu Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by master of none
    Originally Posted by Iucounu
    After the meeting, the wife and I told DS5 to speed it up and make sure he put as much detail as possible in each sentence for a while.

    Why is it that the schools never seem to think of this? In first grade, my dd failed a phonological test because the teacher couldn't hear her answers. I asked if the teacher ask her to speak up? NO! Amazing the progress made the next time they tested, since I told her to speak up.

    What about the kids who are never told by their parents what the tests are asking for?

    I couldn't agree more. The first grade teacher seemed to us to be a little skeptical early on, but I don't think that her behavior was based on a desire to see our son fail. It's more that she seemed not to realize that our son might need useful feedback at least as much as he needed to feel secure. So instead of telling him to hurry up to catch up to the class, and that a bit of sloppiness was okay (I've seen some first graders' work and it can be pretty darn sloppy in general), she would give him extra time, etc. Although I appreciate why, she was walking on eggshells to make sure she didn't make a mistake, when all she needed to do was teach.


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    Iucounu Offline OP
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    Recap and update: DS6 was skipped to first at the end of last year, and continued on to second this year. It has been a complete waste of time academically.

    His TAT team plan from last year called for this year's teacher to work with us before the start of the school year to arrange enrichment; she was unavailable until after the start of the school year, when she admitted that she had no idea what to do and had no experience with gifted children. She wound up sticking him in a corner with some fourth grade worksheets, which she erroneously graded.

    Meanwhile a new vice principal stated several times in meetings that DS is "ahead of where he's supposed to be", and stated his opinion that DS should go "broader rather than deeper". For example, the vice principal suggested that DS, instead of learning new math concepts after mastering old ones, perhaps do a report on the life of a famous mathematician.

    We eventually got DS switched to a new classroom in January, and his old teacher suddenly retired around the same time. His new teacher seemed better initially, and promised to give DS work at his level, but then was directed by the higher-ups not to give DS any accelerated work. (As a bit of background, our school district has a no-double-acceleration policy; apparently one year's worth of subject and/or grade acceleration is all one can ever get, and it is extremely rare to see a grade skip. DS was apparently the youngest student ever to be skipped.) For math, the most glaringly ill-served area for DS, he recently brought home a math worksheet where different regions of a drawn pig face from Angry Birds were colored in according to whether a single-digit addition problem for that area resulted in an odd or even number. mad

    We've just fired off a FERPA request for access to DS's entire education file, to gather information for filing a request for a finding of "manifest educational hardship", which in our state of New Hampshire would allow us to send him to any public school in the state.

    We also have invoked the New Hampshire parental objection law, apparently passed with religious fundamentalist objections to certain content in mind, to object to material being taught to our son below his assessed grade level. We also have specifically objected to the use of Everyday Math in his instruction, as well as any extra math drills prescribed by the district's math consultant, hired to bring up our scores due to Title I status. The law allows us to suggest an alternative, and the school must avoid teaching the objected-to material until an acceptable alternative is agreed to by us and the school. Our first suggestion is for us to afterschool him on math and send work to school (we're not so worried about the language arts aspects of his school instruction right now, though he's learned precious little there as well at school this year).

    There's a charter school opening up in the region which was originally slated to be a gifted school, but due apparently to initial denial of the application was switched to a school without academic eligibility criteria. This school originally looked promising, but I've since heard from another parent, whose DYS child attended a now-defunct gifted school operated by the new charter school's founders, that the old school didn't provide a good environment for her son. I also got a bad feeling about the fit for DS6 when I attended an info session and followed up on the internet, so that's out as an option for us.

    It looks like we're headed for homeschooling, although there's a possibility that we can find another district that is more on the ball with (or simply aware of) issues with educating HG+ children, if we're successful in working the educational hardship angle.

    One good part of this year, perhaps the only part, is that DS6 has become extremely frustrated with lack of educational support at school. He's excited about homeschooling, and if we're forced to go that route, I think he is poised to take full advantage of the opportunity.


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    Originally Posted by Iucounu
    "broader rather than deeper". For example, the vice principal suggested that DS, instead of learning new math concepts after mastering old ones, perhaps do a report on the life of a famous mathematician.
    Argh! What is it that goes through people's heads, such that they think this is appropriate? Is it just that they have no idea what maths is? (We've been fortunate enough not to have met it with DS, but it's horribly familiar from my own childhood.)

    Although it would be tempting to get it written down as "life and work of" and give him Galois or Fermat... they'd have fun marking that :-)

    Good luck with the legal stuff - and enjoy homeschooling!


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    Originally Posted by Iucounu
    For math, the most glaringly ill-served area for DS, he recently brought home a math worksheet where different regions of a drawn pig face from Angry Birds were colored in according to whether a single-digit addition problem for that area resulted in an odd or even number. mad

    I spoke to another mom recently whose kid is at a charter school and was grade-skipped twice (in NC). That's helping some but they are doing math themselves and also some Coursera courses. The accommodation apparently is that their DD does her outside math (EPGY?) when the other kids are doing their math class. I think this could work (DIY education in the classroom!) but I think it would also take great behavior on the part of the kid--I am not sure it would work for our DD because she often needs reminders to stay on task.

    Also, apologies, lucounu, if this is too far OT, but I have just discovered that there are a number of kids in our DD's Montessori class (she's in 3rd grade) who are doing outside math. On the one hand, I think Montessori is good for the very first steps of learning about math, but OTOH once you get past the whole concrete-to-abstract thing there isn't much there there. What annoys me about that whole thing is that they should just say so (i.e., you should seriously consider doing your own math at home) instead of pretending that each kid advances at their own pace in the classroom (which is the whole marketing/philosophy thing as far as I can tell). What a scam. (Sorry--only included in case you're considering Montessori as an alternative).

    Best of luck!

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    My kids were in a full-on Montessori for two years. "Real" Montessoris do not emphasize memorizing math facts or speed math, which are unfortunately important to master too. I thought it was great for introducing complex ideas like multiplication to very young children, but you really had to work on extra things at home to stay afloat.
    I agree that they should just tell you that. The Montessori philosophy is really "follow the child," and I never knew what they did if the child didn't want to read or do math, etc.

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