Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Please help- 1st meeting with GT Coordinator!

Hi everyone,
I'm so glad I found a place where everyone is so experienced in navigating these murky waters. You just assume that everyone would want to help your child achieve and be as challenged as possible...but I guess in reality its easier to just sweep it all under the rug.

So I have a meeting with the GT Coordinator at the local middle school that my ds10 will probably be attending next year. He will be in sixth grade. He can easily do high school level work. One thing about my son: he doesn't complain. He is perfectly happy in any situation...boring/stimulating, etc. He has pretty good social skills and loves sports and in general is a very easy going kid. However, I know that he has never been truly challenged. He's never had to study for a test in his life. As he says "I know it so I don't need to study" and the long list of A+'s are the evidence for him. I'd like him to be challenged and learn how to study and work hard to prepare him for the future. On the other hand- he loves to learn about everything and anything. His eyes light up whenever there is something new to learn- especially science.

I'm worried about what to say because if he's not 'complaining or frustrated' then how do I approach it? The teacher this year said to me "It's not like he already knows everything I teach and he doesn't always get every single question right." Well of course! Why would he know something that he's never been taught? It was a ridiculous argument. What I tried to explain to her was that it was too basic and he learns at 10X the rate as everyone else so he needs more of a challenge. She replied that I should be so thankful to have such a bright and behaved son...that many parents come in and have real problems where their kids are getting D's.

So basically I don't know what to talk about. Should I start off by asking how they treat gifted children? Should I ask about differentiation and how many grade levels above this would be? I think he could handle the higher grade subjects but wouldn't that mean he would skip some of the 6th grade material? I wish there was a way he could complete that over the summer and then go onto something more challenging.

Acceleration/differentiation/enrichment...how do these all differ?

I know that I will have to supplement outside of school but I want them to give him all that he deserves.

We are going to go ahead and get a formal IQ test too and are also registering for the ACT's (he did EXPLORE in January and did very well across all subjects (21-25's).

Any advice would be very appreciated.

Thanks!

Nadia (nkh)

So far, I've been totally unsuccessful in a similar situation with my own son. The school SAYS they're doing what they can, but in reality are sweeping him under the rug and keeping him around so they can report and take credit for his standardized test scores. So I'm not sure that I really know what I'm talking about here.
I do think, however, that the most important point in challenging a child is to focus on the future. I've always said that it's really nice to have a great report card come home, and for my son to not really have to try. But if he gets into the habit of doing minimal work at school, then when he gets to middle or high school where it's a little more challenging (not to mention where his grades actually matter) he will have no experience putting effort into anything, and fall apart. It is also a proven fact that students who are not challenged tend to lose interest over time, and often end up with grades that are even lower than the average student. I would bring these things up first, so they know that you are concerned with the welfare of your child, not just looking for a reason to brag to the other parents.
Ask them about how they plan to ensure that your child is challenged, and definitely bring up differentiation "just in case". They will respond better if you don't come across as someone who KNOWS their child is brighter than everyone else (unfair as it is, they will just think you're a snob and brush you off). If you have samples of above average work that he has done, bring it with you. Ask how this compares to what they will be doing in class. Then maybe THEY will bring up some sort of acceleration or something for him, which will make it a LOT easier to get something done.
Good luck, hope this helps!

The middle school where my DD13 attends is 7 -12. In the beginning I had a really difficult time getting help. She had come from a radically accelerated program (3 or more years) into this school that kept her accelerated in math but not in English. IQ scores did nothing for advocating. However her SAT scores did. It seems finding a test they can relate to really helps. I do not know enough about the Explore test and whether it would talk for you. Good luck

I would say exactly what you have said here - and stress the fact that you want him to develop good work ethic like every other child.

I'd start with what you see is the problem, then move right into how teachers in the past have dealt with this problem, and then ask the GC if she agrees with last year's teacher. This covers 'where you are coming from.' Assuming the GC says that she doesn't agree with this year's teacher, the next step is to ask the GC how she goes about getting a child into a good fit environment where he will have to study for tests and learn that making an effort to learn is normal. Have those ACT and Explore scores in hand to show what info you have so far. If possible also have some 'work samples' of the sort of thing that DS10 does on his own at home.

Be prepared to get no direct answer at the first meeting.

I would recommend you read a book called 'The Iowa Acceleration Scale manual' and download 'A nation decieved.' Both provide an introduction to 'the keywords' of getting an improved fit for your child.

He deserves to 'learn how to learn' just like every other kid in that building. It isn't true that he's 'lucky and you should just keep quite.'

Love and more love,
Grinity

I just saw that you posted this:
Local resources are terrific! I would strongly encourage you to contact the contact person for this group and ask tons of questions about what is offered locally. You might even find someone who knows your school and what the local magic words are.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Hi,
I don�t know that I have too much to offer. My DS did not get proper placement until 4th grade in Reading/Writing. The English program is truly individualized based on his reading and writing levels. He never had acceleration in other subjects until this last year in 6th grade. DS hit ceilings on IBST/CoGat and state testing again in 5th grade. I was shocked when they gave him a grade level Math placement for 6th grade. I spoke with his Math teacher (who strongly disagreed with the placement) and found out it was the Principle�s decision. The Principle let me know it was good placement and he wasn�t changing it. I let it go over the summer... wink wink. Our school uses a Math program called ALEKS. I signed DS up and had him doing it all summer. He whipped through a couple of courses. I printed out all of his assessments, progress, and test. I called the Math coordinator for our middle school at the beginning of August. I asked to meet with her to go over his test scores and ALEKS work from the summer. She took about 30 seconds to look at the information; asked to make copies, and told me she would move him up a grade level. I was not sure it was enough but I didn�t want to push my luck. Given his 116% average for the year, I�d say it wasn�t enough. My DS took Explore for the first time this year as well. It was our first above grade level test for us. I�m feeling a little guilty now that I didn�t do it sooner. DS hit those ceiling as well. Our school has seen the scores and wants to meet in May to discuss his placement for next year. I�m guessing He will get another grade skip or 2. It was a very good tool for us to show them what our DS needs.

I try to feel out the reactions of staff to me suggesting he needs more. Sometimes I feel the resistant immediately and then I move on until I find the person who is listening to my concerns. DS does no homework and never studies for a test. I have found the staff responds more to me suggesting he has not seen new material in a given school year than to suggesting he needs more work. Anyone can certainly load him down with ridiculous amounts of work, but if he already knows the material it is worthless. Even in his Reading/Writing class where his work level is late HS/College level, He still manages to complete it all without bring it home. DS is certainly getting taught a lot in the class. Increased levels may or may not increase the workload. I would try to look for something like ALEKS program to do at home over the summer. I picked ALEKS because I knew the school was familiar with it and would know what his progress based on the reports from ALEKS. If possible, I would pick something they know well for subjects you would like to see him challenged in.

I would imagine GC understands perfect score on everything doesn�t define giftedness. Many kids under perform. I certainly would hope GC understands the rate of learning for GT kids. I would bring your Explore scores along with background information on the test in case she is not familiar with Explore. Some teachers really don�t like the smart ones and certainly don�t have a clue how challenging GT kids can be for parents. My DS has had a few them. I agree 100% on Iowa Acceleration Scale and Nation Deceived. It�s helpful information to feel informed and comfortable with the decisions for your DS. If your willing to print a gazillion pages. I'd want to drop a copy of Nation Deceived on that teacher�s desk on the last day of school. I know it's not nice. Her attitude just burns me. It�s too late to change her attitude towards him, but maybe it will help another like him. He deserves to challenged and taught new material just like every other child.
Good Luck!

Hi Nadia,
It is excellent that you are getting the testing done because this will leave little room for questioning (on their part) - facts are facts.
My suggestion is to do your research and get clear about what you want for your son before the meeting (grade skip(s), subject acceleration,etc). Use the information from above mentioned resources and the others that you find to back up what you are saying and asking.
I know this was not a lengthy response, but I hope it is helpful. I am wishing the best for you!!

Hi Nadia -

I have a perfectly behaved noncomplainer too. We were just talking the other day about the difference between the local school, where he spent half the year, and his current school, which is for HG kids. He said he preferred the local school because it was easier. I told him that I remember as a child being really bored when the teacher was explaining stuff that I already knew. DS said, "Well I really like to daydream, and there isn't so much time to daydream at the new school." It definitely makes it harder when you do not have a kid who is disturbing the class in some way because they are not challenged. What worked for us was a grade skip plus a move to a school for HG kids, where they worked a year ahead plus at a faster pace. I recommend exploring all school options, if you have any, just to feel out what might be the best setting.

You asked:
"Acceleration/differentiation/enrichment...how do these all differ?" There are several forms of acceleration, including full-grade skips, subject acceleration (moving up a grade or two in one subject), and curriculum compacting (teaching materials in a shorter amount of time). I believe "A Nation Deceived does a nice job of explaining even more types of acceleration. I would recommend asking the GT coordinator which types of acceleration they have used.

Differentiation is an in-classroom technique, where the teacher teaches something different to different groups of kids (or one kid). For example, a classroom may have several different groups for reading, where each group is at a different level and gets different types of discussion questions.

Enrichment, IMO, is something that every student can benefit from, but is not necessarily "gifted" programming, even though the school might call it that. This includes things like getting pullouts to do poetry or higher level thinking classes. Gifted kids enjoy these activities, and I'm not saying they're bad, but I think they give GT programs a bad name because kids not ID'd as GT would also benefit from these programs and their parents are rightfully indignant.

I agree with the other posters - think about what you want. If you check out the Iowa Acceleration Scales, you might find that your child is a good fit for a full-grade skip if he has never been challenged.

There's a good article somewhere (I'll try to post later) about what a child doesn't learn if they are not challenged. Perseverance is one thing I'd like my child to learn, but he can't learn that if he never fails at anything because he already knows what they're teaching. I would prefer my child to get a hard-earned B than an A he did nothing at all to get. I think many teachers do not understand that we do not want our kids to get all A's!

Hi Nadia,

Just a little bit different perspective. I do agree that ultimately you will prob. have to be the one to define what you want for your son and ask for it. But there is nothing wrong with going into this first meeting and viewing it as a relationship building and info gathering session. You can ask her what various options are available, and when the school is likely to use them. You can ask what has been done in the past, what is in place, etc. You can ask for information on curriculum. And you can (and should) ask about who the decision makers are and what criteria are in place in terms of things like full grade skips, subject acceleration, GT programs, etc.

Ask how they will decide what the appropriate options are for your child.

And be gracious and open and listen . That sets the stage for later meetings.

And honestly, after all that, I would start looking at all the info I could find to confirm that what you learned is correct. To the extent she suggested to you what they are planning for your child, think about whether it is makes sense to you. Then plan to go in with your revisions to the plan, and evidence to back you up.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Cat

It looks like everyone is giving you great advice, but I just thought I'd post the link that st pauli girl is referring to:

http://www.wku.edu/academy/?p=430