Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Weschler and 5 Year Old

I met with a psychologist this morning. He will be doing IQ testing on DS5. He said he would be using Weschler. I got home and looked it up, and I see that there is a version for kids approx. 3-7 and one for kids 6-16 (WISC IV.) My son will turn six in June. Are the age limits strict on the tests? For example, could a five year old be tested using the one for six year olds or would he have to be tested with the preschool version? I have a feeling my son will test fairly high, and if he has to be tested with the preschool version, I may cancel and go back after he turns six. I think it would be a waste of money if he doesn't have room on the test for a fairly high score. I don't know much about testing. I would appreciate any advice!

You know enough about testing 'cause you go the basic idea just perfectly!
Do you need the info before age 6? I agree with everything you said.
Welcome,
Grinity

Thanks Dottie!!! That's exactly what I needed to know. If it wouldn't be valid for a five year old, I think the psychologist will be using the preschool one. I think he may be better waiting until turning six. I know he'll need room for some careless mistakes :-)

Grinity, I'm having a hard time figuring out what to do with my son school-wise. I'm meeting with the school next month to make decisions about next year. I thought IQ scores would be helpful. The school doesn't get him at all. However, I may talk to the private psychologist about other testing options. (The school doesn't want to do more testing. They are concerned about causing stress in my son. I know I could probably force the issue, but I'd rather pay for private testing than make an issue over it. They already did Iowa Basic Skills achievement testing which classified him as gifted with top 1% scores. However, they say this is because of "skills" I've taught him. They think they have a significant number of similar students. I disagree with this. It's a rural district and the local demographics just don't lead me to believe it's possible.)

They won't get it until it's already been accomplished. Most schools don't know how to read an IQ test - or know what a 'standard deviation' is. A number isn't going to help you. Just remind them that he's happy in the 1st grade room, and sad in the kindy room. It's really that simple.

Have you spend a reasonable amount of time in the classroom? If you have then you can observe if there are kids who are at his 'ready-to-learn' level or not.
I'd put in writing that you request he be placed in first grade full time for the rest of the year. Tell the principle that you expect to hear that this can be accomplished by May 1, 2011.
Let them tell you what needs to happen to 'allow' this. Offer to sign a paper saying that you are the parent and you will not hold them accountable for social/emotional problems due to the skip.

Start observing the 2nd grade teachers and try to get the school to allow you to give input into which 2nd grade teacher he should get next year - you want someone who is currently differentiating for her kids, and enough self confidence to laugh at herself.

How is the 'hothousing choosing when and how much emotion to show' going?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thanks Grinity! I can't express how useful the discussion forums have been to me! There is no way they will let him be in first full time this year. I am fighting for next year to be better at this point. They told me (nicely) that they think it was a mistake to let him do first at all this year and think he should be in first full days next year. I think that's crazy. He has a 98 average in first grade now with no real effort. What happened is he took a 10 minute test called the STAR reading test. They are basing all their ideas on this test. He came out a high first grade reader. I believe this is completely wrong. He only reads third grade and higher books for fun. I asked my son what he thought of the STAR test. He told me he wasn't positive and stared at the computer until time ran out. He thinks to not answer is better than taking a chance on being wrong :-) My son is in a very small public school. There are only two teachers per grade. For second grade, the kids switch in the middle of the day. They have each teacher equal time. I was hoping IQ scores would push them into thinking full time second grade would be possible (or at least subject acceleration.) I volunteer in the kindergarten class. I do not see a similar group of kids. We have been working on emotional control. Truthfully, he doesn't have a huge problem. I think he's cried 5 times total this year. He tends to be a little shy around teachers. I'm working on teaching him to be more assertive of his needs. I think if he would express himself sooner when he has a problem it wouldn't get to the point of crying. The classes are very big... 27 students in Kindergarten with no full-time aide. He's just not good at jumping in when he has a problem and demanding attention from the teacher. We're working on it!

But my concern is 'if they don't get that 1st grade is needed this year, how will you convince them that 2nd grade is needed next year?'

It sounds like that are playing the 'any excuse will do' game. If you have 5 indicators one way, they will pay more attention to the one indicator the other way (star) or fabricate an indicator by raising the bar (crying)

Don't pin your hopes on the IQ scores = maybe if the tester will go to the school and advocate for you. I would call a lawyer or get a back up plan.

IQ scores just don't mean much to most schoolies. They trust what they see in front of them, and if they don't have a slot for 'hugely gifted' in their brains, then they won't 'see' what you see. Try taking videos of your DS talking about his favorite books - like an oral book report, and show them the kid you see.

I think the assertiveness will help all around. Teachers like outgoing, bubbly kids as a general rule, and find them 'more mature' than shy ones. After all - it is easy to get lost in the shuffle of so many kids if one is shy, and the teachers find it helpful to be able to trust that 'no news is good news with Bobby.'

Ug!
Grinity

What about martial arts for assertiveness training. The fact that the school thinks he's too delicate to even test worries me that they are getting a totally wrong idea about your kid. Video the child in any situations where he talks to strangers, or acts assertive at all, ok?

If I were his age, and placed in a room with others that far below my readiness to learn level, I'd act shy, worried and insecure as well. Wouldn't you?

g

Our DS (now 7) was tested on the WPPSI three weeks before he turned six. As far as I know, the "ages" must be adhered to in order for the results to be valid. My son scored 147 Verbal and 148 Perceptual Reasoning, so it is possible for higher scores to be achieved the closer they get to the top of the age range. The doctor told us that he did a few tests from the Weschler 6 and up afterward on his own (not added into his score), and the results were consistent. I think he may have been looking for possible ceiling effects.

I have been reading on the board where the WPPSI scores can be inflated, so I'm curious to know how he would have scored on the Weschler for 6 and up had he been eligible to take that version. We were traveling internationally, so time was of the essence for us.

Is this your only school choice? We are allowed to "choice" our children to other schools where I live if they have openings.

When my oldest was a 3rd grader, we were considering a grade skip b/c she was being subject accelerated to 4th grade for part of the day anyway and was in the 99th percentile on pretty much everything. She also fit better in the 4th grade class. We put together a whole packet of info for the school including IQ test scores, achievement test scores (both theirs and private), a letter of support from a psych dd had seen, info from a Nation Deceived, and support from both her 3rd grade teacher and the 4th grade teacher whose class she was in for part of the day. The principal had a personal opposition to grade skipping and insisted that nothing we provided mattered b/c it was always a disaster in her personal experience.

We wound up changing schools the next year for a variety of reasons and she entered 4th grade. She learned very little that year and we were approached toward the end of 4th grade by the school suggesting that she skip a grade. She skipped 5th, entering middle school a year early, and we've seen none of the disasterous outcomes the principal of the prior school suggested. She'll be in 9th grade next year and it's been the right thing for her.

Point being -- can you ascertain if they are just philosophically opposed to grade skipping and going to throw barriers in your way no matter what you come in with? If so, I really might consider a switch of schools if possible. Also, is there anyone there who understands IQ scores well? I had a conversation w/ the GT coordinator of our neighborhood school a while back when we were considering switching my younger dd there and she totally didn't know what the #s or percentiles meant. She felt that she had a lot of kids in her GT program with IQ scores in the upper 140s or above the 99th percentile. (They don't IQ test in the schools.) I found that highly unlikely and her understanding of what scores meant to make it unlikely that she'd understand the differences btwn MG, HG, and high achieving but not gifted.