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    #963 07/18/06 12:02 PM
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    Wow! What a fantastic book. Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children and Adults, has been a magnificent resource for me. It was recommended to me by our state's Department of Education Gifted Education Director. I've used tons of little sticky notes in it and have had it near to hand since I got it last Friday.

    We had a neuropsych. eval of Mite, 8, and the psychologist didn't even meet him, or me, or read through his school district eval thoroughly before tossing him into Nonverbal Learning Disorder because of the discrepancy between his VCI and his PRI. Had, she read things thoroughly and chatted with Mite or me, she would have ruled that out due to great social functioning. The only thing he really has difficulty with is the visual-spatial stuff, the the educational psychologist felt Mite did those things very, very slowly because of perfectionism and performance anxiety.

    This book indicates that such discrepancies are common among the gifted and may not indicate problems at all, while some may show learning disability. I truly feel Mite's motor skills are significantly delayed, but really feel his reasoning ability and speed are intact and are in fact excellent. This book supports my beliefs in those areas and gives me hope for Mite.

    I feel like I'm seeing a light at the end of a very long tunnel.


    Willa Gayle
    #964 07/18/06 10:51 PM
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    Thank you for the reference. I am going to check this one out ASAP! Allegedly my son has ADHD but I have been saying all along that he can focus so well when he's interested and thriving on something that I just don't know that I believe it. I know that kids with ADHD do have that whole "hyperfocus" thing that goes on and I also know my son's father was diagnosed with ADHD many moons ago (you know before drs knew much of what they knew now so just IMAGINE how much was misdiagnosed in those days!) so if that was correct then genetically that is possible but he is also very gifted so....maybe his struggles were the same thing. Years ago there was so much less for gifted kids so it's quite possible. Anyway, I will be looking into this book and reading it cover to cover for sure! THANKS A BUNCH!

    M.


    "Learning can only happen when a child is interested. If he's not
    interested it's like throwing marshmallows at his head and calling it
    eating." -Anonymous
    #965 07/19/06 01:03 AM
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    I have read and reread some chapters and sections in the book until they are worn....

    The biggest thing we got from it? Don't bother with evaluation unless you get someone who really knows their stuff. We actually went to one of the authors to do our son's evaluation last spring and we were able to conclusively rule out ADHD. Total change in the folks at school. (Oh, well maybe we should challenge him more..... hmmm didn't I say that somewhere along the way?)

    Kids can be ADHD and gifted - but it isn't unusual for them to be gifted and misdaignosed with ADHD. Very helpful to get the extra information.

    Good luck
    Mary


    Mary
    #966 07/19/06 04:10 AM
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    Mary,

    I find your addition to this thread intriguing and very fascinating. Sorry if that sounds creepy. People look at me like I'm some crazy parent who just doesn't want her child to be ADHD and is just too obsessed with his geftedness to see the truth for what it is. I'd really like to tell them all "Ya know WHAT? If you read HALF the information IIIIII have read and devoted HALF of the time IIIII have to knowing this child then MAYBE I would give a rat's behind what you think but..... since you don't meet any of the above criteria..." and can I just say if one more person says "Oh that is so cool!" when they learn that my 7 year old is entering the 4th grade in the fall and has every intention of clearing at least 2 grades over the period of the school year I think I might smack them. I'm sure that sounds horrible but I get tired of explaining that while it may seem "cool" he does meet challenges that your typical child doesn't meet and there aren't easy fixes for them so it's just not as cool as some may think. Not to mention his struggles are typically put on the back burner by the traditional school because they see him as just an advanced kid who can get by so easily so what help could he possibly need. *rolls eyes* Yeah, we may have come a long way in the last ten years or whatever but we still have so far to go with these kids. Anyway, the eval./testing the school did on my son 2 weeks after he turned 5 years old showed him to be pretty exceptional and I consider that I've been told their tests have pretty low ceilings so I think well lack of challenge = lack of interest = lack of attention = ADHD diagnosis but HEY RED FLAG HERE we're not talking about just any kid here....(and no offense to any "average" child either). My son is being re-tested by a Dr. our ped. is familiar with now that he's 7 as our insurance will pay for it and my son agreed and I'm very anxious to hear what she has to say not only about his testing but about where he is socially and emotionally because our ped. is FLAT OUT AGAINST the fact that I removed him from the school that wanted to offer him an hour pull out program once every 6th school day and that was it. Oh and can I tell you when I asked him what those hours were spent doing he would come back with "Oh we practiced writing our name and talked about small, medium, and large...." he was in FIRST GRADE by this point so you tell me if that is really defined as a GIFTED program. *scowl* But yeah I worry every day that I have held this child back too much so I need to know from someone smarter then me.....August 8th can't get here fast enough....

    M.


    "Learning can only happen when a child is interested. If he's not
    interested it's like throwing marshmallows at his head and calling it
    eating." -Anonymous
    #967 07/19/06 09:33 PM
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    EXACTLY!!! YES YES and AMEN SISTER!!! chuckle

    I so can agree with these posts. That's exactly why I've been living with this book at my side.

    The very first thing the teacher in 2nd grade had to offer re: Mite's inattentiveness in class was ADHD. In Kindergarten we told the teacher Mite was reading and she said he wasn't. In second grade we told the teacher Mite had a dyspraxia and even brought his medical OT in to talk with her about it, but no, the teacher didn't agree. "Many little boys have messy writing habits". Then in second grade we were dismayed when Mite was slammed into the middle to low reading and math classes when we knew his ability was much higher. We didn't even know he was a gifted as he is, but we knew he was much brighter than the teachers were seeing. He wasn't a behavior problem. He was getting "satisfactory" grades. However, he'd withdraw, become depressed, and rub things in his fingers.

    Finally, after a long fight with the district, we got them to evaluate Mite. Lo and behold, a kid with a very high iq and very poor, severely delayed fine motor skills.

    Well, thank goodness the district ed psychologist, is intelligent and capable and sees "asynchronous development" instead of horrible medical disorders. Thank goodness, he recognizes the "dyspraxia" as a valid side effect of very high intelligence.

    We've gone on to the medical world to get a more thorough evaluation of Mite, but were shocked to see the neuro. psychologist slam Mite into "nonverbal learning disorder" without even MEETING him, or reading the ed psych's evaluation notes where he states that Mite is very highly socially developed with a great sense of humor and great patience and perseverance. So, the neuorpsychologist was ready to label him as "NLD" and ADHD without even evaluating him. I really want to scream at the woman. The ed psych, after nearly 30 hours of observing Mite, said that Mite's inattentiveness was very specific to activities involving fine motor skills..

    Anyhow...the medical and education community are hopeless in helping and educating the very bright child...let alone the highly to profoundly bright child.

    Thank GAWD for this book!!!! I'm well armed now. My son will get the help he needs, and by golly, I'll make sure to spread this information so other kids will get this info too.


    Willa Gayle
    #968 07/20/06 04:23 AM
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    Now I'm REALLY excited to read it. Our ped. will probably be really upset that I am reading it though. *evil laugh* I really like our ped. really I do. We agree on a LOT of things and his wife is a psychiatrist so I'd expect a little more from him but he has such a pre-determined opinion of removing ANY child from the tradtional school setting that my son, after ONE year of the pa cyber charter school, has already been labled "weird" by the ped. I know I need to just switch peds. but I can't do that just yet. I know you must be pounding your fists on your desktop and screaming "WHY WOMAN? WHY WHY WHY???" The fact of the matter is, this man is NOT in control of my son's education in any way and I don't need his approval or reccommendations or referrals for anything at this point in time and as I said I love every other aspect of the way he does his ped. business. I also have every intention of proving his wise *ss wrong and at some point bringing him to his knees in admittance that my son is no weirdo and while his conversations with my 7 year old may be "stoic" as he calls them, at no point have I jeopardized my son's future because I didn't heed his every warning. His greatest argument is the social factor and I just throw my hands up at people now who say that to me and say "oh social smocial! WTH do YOU know anyway?" Yes, I tend to come off as quite the *ss myself at times. *snicker* I really don't mean to be but heavens do people really think stupid morons bear these intelligent children? Ok, so we're capable of mistakes but we're also the ones who spend the most time reading about our kids and really customizing life for them not the schools or the drs or anyone else. *stomps foot* My ped. was so upset to find that my son wasn't on a sports team. Well I'm sure he'll nearly have an "O" right there in his little chair when I inform him at our next appt. that he played baseball this spring and he is looking to play baseball this fall. He was insistant that no college would consider him regardless of intellect if he was only interested in karate outside of his studies. Yeah, you read that correctly. I guess he's spoken with every admissions person from every college across the country about how important extracurriculars are even at age 7, right? Well, I ordered this book from amazon.com yesterday and it just can't get here fast enough. I was disappointed that the library didn't carry it as I was anxious to get ahold of it in a hurry but I suspect I will be REALLY happy to have my very own copy. *smile* I can say my son also took longer to do a lot of fine motor things like shoe tying and whatnot. Oh his handwriting is DREADFUL at times but IF he takes his time he really can write nicely...usually he's just lazy and in a hurry...you know the thoughts come too quickly or we just want to get to the next task.

    Oh kinder. teachers...god bless them. My son's teacher complained EVERY DAY that he was rolling around on the floor making noises during what they call "reading mastery". I asked her exactly what they did during that time and she says "well for 45 MINUTES we sit them down and do letter sounds." After I picked my jaw up off the floor I told her she was lucky it was my son and not me because I'd have been shouting obscenities at her while rolling around instead of just noises. THE CHILD COULD READ ALREADY! She hated him from the minute he walked in the door. He was only 4 and was supposed to be in the K-4 class but of course I fought to have him tested for the K-5 class and he was easily granted the early admission. She was less then thrilled. She finally, would just tell him to go read a book by himself during the letter sounds crap because she couldn't stand him anymore. Yeah, she told me that. *shakes head* Did I mention this teacher is about 100 years old? She really loved the students who were little robots that did everything she asked like good little robots but boy don't raise your hand and want to expand on anything or b smarter then she is because....well forget it. *sigh* I was relieved that his first grade teacher was a guy who was only in his second year of teaching so for one thing he was not burned out...no instead he and his wife had just adopted a baby so he took a nice 3 month leave or something right in the middle of the year and some woman came in and she didn't know what to do with my son either. *sigh* To this day, my son is still taking his ADHD meds. because for now there is no one of any medical fashion telling me he does not have ADHD but I have my doubts and I have talked with my son about this. He has asked to try a day without his meds. I should say med and not make it plural because he only takes one thing but anyway....we did try one Sunday and he was fine all day until the afternoon when the med would have worn off anyway and for some reason it was like he short circuited and I told him I didn't know that he could control himself all on his own just yet. I felt really bad saying that to him without really being sure I believe the whole ADHD factor for him anyway but...it was all just too much to get into at the time. Maybe this book is just what we need. *smile* I did ask our ped. about getting an EKG or maybe it was an EEG or something done to test for ADHD? I recall on Dr. Phil there was some guy who said there IS in fact a definitive test like that which CAN say yes or no a child does or does not have ADHD based on brain activity this test reports. My ped. said "ugh yeah Dr. Phil is an entertainer." He said he knew nothing of this study and he even asked his wife about it and of course she knew nothing about it so he said it may still be in the research stages or something....of course this was before I saw the bad side of my ped. so I threw all that paperwork away. *scowl*

    Well, now that I typed up a novel....and put you all to sleep....sweet dreams. *snicker*

    M.


    "Learning can only happen when a child is interested. If he's not
    interested it's like throwing marshmallows at his head and calling it
    eating." -Anonymous
    #969 07/20/06 12:02 PM
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    chuckle. That was such a good post. I lovvvvved it. It reminds me of my experiences with my first son (he took an antibody model to show-n-tell in preschool -- the teacher just loved that NOT. At the end of the year she told me she never did like my son and nobody probably ever would).

    I proudly took him back to her class last year where he shook her hand, looked her in the eye, and recalled nearly every disciplinary thing she ever did to him. She blushed so deeply. Then I smiled and said it was ok. I explained that the boy is now 14, a straight A honor roll kid, praised by every teacher for good manners and high motivation and that she just trained us how to deal with all the doubters in his life. there were some hard years in between.

    As for doctor's....I barely tell the medical one anything, but he's a nice chap. We go natural/alternative pretty much and our chiropractor is a great blessing. He's been enchanted with our family's ordeals and has been more than willing to learn when he didn't have the answer.

    He's anti-ADHD-meds, but he endures my taking them myself.

    Anyhow, your story is beautiful. I read every word of the tome...and chuckled through the whole thing.

    Oh btw, GET A NEW PEDIATRICIAN!! chuckle.


    Willa Gayle
    #970 07/21/06 04:17 AM
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    Well I'm glad I'm at least good for someone's entertainment. *smile* I will have to get a new ped. once we move...which will hopefully be in the next year...maybe two tops. The area we are considering moving to has an EXCEPTIONAL reputation for their schools and I actually think there may be hope for my son some day returning to the traditional school setting. It would have to be his decision to do so and of course the school would have to be accommodating. I have already started my research but just looking at the steep taxes we'd be forking out in the area they ought to offer a darn near college education to him. *gasp* We are not wealthy people and I don't mean to make it sound like we'd be moving to some overly "uppity" area but it is a considerably "higher end" area of this part of the state. (Nothing against anyone who is well off either) The schools get rave reviews from parents (yes PARENTS actually get to write their OWN reviews of the schools!...god help the school here if I figure out how to write one up on them. *falls off chair laughing*) and they say that parent involvement is so highly encouraged and they really do push the kids to reach their full potential so...that sounds really good on paper. Naturally the proof will be in whether they want parents like me to be involved. *snicker* Our ped. will probably FWD all medical records for the kids with some warning on the front of the kids' charts about what an OVERinvolved parent I am and how my son is a weirdo etc. I always wonder what little notes he is taking that I can't see...."mom is definately the one passing on the weirdo gene...." *chuckle* I did recently read a book on overindulgent parenting because of course I was worried that I was guilty of that too...has anyone figured out yet that I worry about EVERYTHING I could possibly be doing wrong for my kids? I didn't find myself to be guilty of that which was a relief. I think I am too strict sometimes so if I had to crack down more I'd really feel bad. See? I know our ped. thinks I don't worry about my son's social well being but I do....read like 5 books about it and EQ yadda yadda.....now I am just dying to get this book. Oh he's going to hunt you down for reccommending this book to me. He's going to pick some wax out of his ear and say "You heard about this book from a what? A message board? Didn't I tell you before you can read ANYTHING on the internet?" *howling with laughter* Maybe in the same sentence I'll mention that my son was told that Princeton U. has a really great Paleontology program. *giggle* He told my son the last time we were in "oh lots of little boys your age like dinosaurs and want to be one of those when they grow up but you'll probably change your mind...." He likely forgot he was talking to the child who couldn't be put in the room with the "incorrect dinosaur poster". Maybe he will change his mind but who cares? *shakes head* I guess I better get my son signed up for about 12 more sports though, huh? I mean Princeton U.....well! Maybe I'll just ask the ped. to fill out all the papers FOR me. I know I'm so snarky and mean. *blush* My son is so kind....I don't know where he gets that from.

    So your son's teacher was still teaching all those years later? I don't think I'd have been able to hide my surprise. If that dinosaur my son had 2 years ago is still teaching when he's 14.....*zips mouth* How nice that your son has good manners. So many kids have many great qualities about them and have NO MANNERS and I think to myself...."geez! you were fine right up until...."

    Our ped. asks a LOT of questions so that's why he knows so much. He always asks my son too and doesn't WANT me to answer. He likes to see my son's personality and his attention and interaction. Of course my son is usually very short with him so he doesn't get all the information anyway.....

    You know....we never had show and tell here...at least MY SON was never allowed to take anything in. I would assume that means no one else had show and tell either. I shudder to think what he would have taken in. "here is what dog poop looks like when you put your dog on the raw diet...it's really cool because it's not mushy...." Well maybe not....we'll never know now. In so many ways he is still very very very much a 7 year old. Now he wants a darn gameboy. So I got him one. He doesn't know I got it yet...but he has to earn it and he knows that. He wants a skateboard too but I suspect that will pass so I'm not buying him one. He wants one because some kid told him he has the perfect sneakers for skateboarding. Pffft! He has the perfect bones to break too! *shudder*

    Ok, way off topic now....

    M.


    "Learning can only happen when a child is interested. If he's not
    interested it's like throwing marshmallows at his head and calling it
    eating." -Anonymous
    #971 07/22/06 12:06 PM
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    My oldest boy didn't go to school (that preschool thing was 2 hours twice a week for the spring session) until he was in 3rd grade. I did absolutely nothing with him educationally during that time. Occasionally he'd say he was bored and we would put him in public school for 3-4 weeks, then he'd tire of that and we'd pull him out. I know....bad parents. But, the schools in MI, where we were at the time, were absolute h*ll holes. Classes had 2 teachers with more than 50 kids and several paras. They were a joke.

    When we moved to another state, we put him in school, 3rd grade and he never looked back. It really is a pretty decent school, though there are lots of academic flaws and he was the only minority (we're a biracial couple) for 3 years!

    It is the same school our Mite is going to. Even though he is bored out of his wits, he is happy with it all and we're cool with that.

    He did ask me the other day if he could skip to junior high. UGH. I'm just worried how he'll deal with all the assistive technology interventions and being put in the gifted cluster this 3rd grade year. If they'll put him in the gifted cluster. The director of gifted education for the district says he's not keen on putting a special needs student into a gifted cluster because he thinks that is too hard on the teacher!!! ARGH!!

    I'd like to meet your doctor. We'd make each other nuts!!! chuckle!


    Willa Gayle
    #972 07/24/06 01:26 AM
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    I'm new to the board--my son tested very high (psych. said he was cognitively at 8 or 9 yrs when he was 2.8 yrs) but he is in a special ed preschool because of behavior and AdHD, sensory disorder, physical therapy. Now he is an odd child who is full of energy, but his energy is too scattered which is why I placed him in this school, but now that he is turning 4, he refuses to do academic things he used to love and he is playing with kids who have very low IQs and imitating them perfectly. He gets frustrated easily and does not live to persevere. In the meantime, He has actually become popular and mothers are calling me for playdates, which would have never happened a year ago! But when I see him with some of these kids, I can't believe it. He loves the preschool--which is 3 or 4 teachers to 10 kids, I mean who wouldn't love it? I am worried he is hiding his talent in order to get along--but I am also worried that maybe he does have severe learning disabilities that I don't know about yet. Any suggestions?

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