Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Various SCAT questions

DS7 and DD7 are registered to take the SCAT. I gave the sample questions for both the 2nd/3rd and 4th/5th grade to DS7 and have some questions.

1. Since they are supposed to be two grades out of level, does that mean the 2nd/3rd grade are geared toward 5th grade?

2. Do they intentionally make the sample questions really easy and all the real questions harder? Would the real 2nd/3rd grade test be more like the sample 4th/5th grade test?

3. DS7 has a problem with going too fast. He took about one-half of the allotted time to complete all the sample questions. While it didn't seem to hurt him with the quantitative sections, I can really see the effects on the verbal sections. He missed a few, but with one exception, always got the correct answer when I make him go back and slow down. Any advice on what to tell him other than slow down.

4. DS7 missed the same number of verbal questions on the 2nd/3rd grade test as he did on the 4th/5th grade test. Shouldn't he miss more on the higher level test?

5. Do you need to get most of the questions right to meet the qualification for the CTY camps? It is not an issue for DS7 since he has been subject accelerated in math and the District assessments indicated that he is at least two to three years ahead (which was a formal requriement of acceleration)but while DD7 aced the end of third grade online assessment (informally done at home but access provided by school), I believe she is only at a fourth grade level.

6. What advice do you recommend for a slow poke? I haven't given DD7 the sample questions yet but she tends to take up all available time to complete class work although her end products speak for themselves. She is a talented writer and I think the writing camps will be a good fit.

Thanks for any assistance.

Well, the SCAT test is actually a reasoning test. What that means is that its not how much computation the child can do, but basically how the child can use reasoning and logical thinking to answer the questions. As far as their practice questions are concerned, the questions are actually harder.

If your child is testing as a second grader, the child will receive both a raw score as well as how the child compares to fourth graders. If the child is a third grader, then it will be a raw score and percentile compared to fifth graders.

The funny thing about the test is that the child can be really advanced academically and not do well on it, or can be a little above average academically, but excel. The test basically tests logical thinking and reasoning abilities.

The reading portion is basically analogies, and they can get pretty advanced. The math portion will have the child choose from two possible answers/choices, but they will be very close. The child needs to be very good at estimating and mental calculation, because there won't be enough time to figure out both choices. If I remember correctly, its only an hour test, and the child gets a ten minute break in between. The child is NOT reminded to start again after the ten minutes are up, but the test will continue whether or not the child is actually working! The times are built right into the test.

There are some great books that will help for the SCAT, they're critical thinking books available from this site:

http://www.criticalthinking.com

It is good to use them from grade level and up (they really require thinking), the analogies book especially. I wanted to prepare my Ds9, he was 8 at the time he took the SCAT, but he didn't want to do the 'easy' books. Well, he was very advanced, basically doing preAlgebra and 7th grade reading comprehension as a second grader, and I thought he would probably get everything right. He came out saying the choices were confusing, and the test was weirder than he expected. He did well on it, he did get
an award for his results, but still, he didn't get them all right.

There's 50 questions on each section, and the child needs to get about 38 to 40 right to qualify. The test is on a computer, which may be helpful for a child who likes to work slowly, it was very good for my slow poke, he finished ahead of time, and he normally takes forever.

My advice to you is to prep the kids for a few weeks before hand, but the day before, not even mention the test. On test day, go casually to take the test, and go out for something fun afterwards. Our kids don't need to know how much we fret, if they did they would get so nervous they won't do well on exams. Good luck, hope they do great!

My DS is a second grader and he is taking the SCAT test in a few days . I got an analogies book called "Ridgewood Primary analogies".

This is a great site and I registered on this site today . I could not figure out how to start a post . Could you guide me .

MY second grade DS came home with a MAP score of 217 in Math , can you please help me interpret it .I did not know how to start a new post on this form

Vennela, Welcome! When you click on the forum title of the forum you wish to post your question under, on the left hand side of the new box will be a tab titled "new topic", just click on that and type away.

Dorothy

Got it . Thank you .

Thanks for all the info!

That is an interesting point about academic advancement versus logical reasoning abilities. That is my school/district's position regarding math acceleration: you need to pass their logical reasoning assessment after you demonstrated the at least two to three year advancement. That is why I never considered accelerating DD7 because while I can teach her enough math to bring her to the minimum of the "at least 2 to 3 years advance" level, I simply don't think she has that innate logical reasoning ability, at least in the math context. However, I am not sure what I believe in general regarding the acceleration criteria. On the one hand, at least at the elementary level, dividing math into six years doesn't necessarily make that much sense and a large proportion of reasonably bright students should be able to easily accelerate a year or two. Maybe they do it that way because on average kids are not ready for Algebra until they are 12 (7th grade) or 13 (8th grade), which is when the majority of the students in our district take Algebra. With DS7, it was the logical reasoning ability that made him at least three years advance so it would seem that if you had the logical reasoning ability you would be academically advance even if you weren't taught the curriculm or have all the terminology down pat, IYKWIM?

Actually, I can really see academic advancement not matching logical reasoning ability in the verbal context far more than in the math context. There is such a huge variation in reading levels within the first several years of school. I can see a child reading a few years above level with an extensive vocabulary not necessarily excelling with analogies.

Anyhow, thanks again.

Anyhow, DS7 and DD7 are scheduled to take the SCAT soon and I am not planning on prepping them other than giving them the sample questions that CTY provides. I would have a mutiny on my hands were I to dare suggest such a thing! I am keeping it very low key and just presented the test as a way to get access to some interesting summer camps. By the way, that is an interesting site though and I might end up getting other stuff there.

Thanks for the recommendation. I didn't realize they made analogy books for the elemntary set. Good luck to your son!

I see that you already figured out how to submit a new post.

Quote Quantun2003 : 2. Do they intentionally make the sample questions really easy and all the real questions harder? Would the real 2nd/3rd grade test be more like the sample 4th/5th grade test?

I have the same question too . Wish some one else has an input . And when they say 2nd/3rd grade test , it makes me wonder would kids have an advantage if they took the test in 3rd grade vs taking the test in second grade .

Why are you prepping?

I guess I view prepping at this age (unlike prepping for the SAT for college apps) kind of counterproductive. SCAT is an aptitude test (I always think of it as kind of quasi-IQ/quasi-achievement, although I realize that is not completely accurate). You wouldn't prep a kid for an IQ test, so why this?

Sorry if I sound judgmental, I don't mean to. I am just curious why you would feel the need to prep for this sort of thing. I mean, the summer programs are nice if you live close enough to use them, but if your kid can't test in without prep, they may not be a good fit.

I have my kid take SCAT so that I can get a true picture of where he is, to give me information about where he should be placed academically. We used information from SCAT (along with other information) to accelerate him 2 grades in math. If I had prepped him (beyond giving him the practice test), I would have been far less comfortable using the score for that purpose - I wouldn't have viewed it as a true indication of his aptitude.

That being said, I gave my DS (who was 7 and in 2nd grade at the time) both the practice tests (and that was it, besides making sure the day of the test I told him to slow down and use his paper and pencil on the math problems). He actually did better on the verbal 4th/5th practice test than the verbal 2nd/3rd. He did equally well on both for math. I have no way to tell for sure, but I wonder if the actual questions are not that dramatically different between the two tests, and what really just changes the score is the norm.

Thank you for your reply.

DS7 & DD7 already took the SCAT and we really just downplayed it as something we were squeezing into our schedule, which as it turned out, took less than an hour, including the sign in, tutorials, and questionnaires.

In response to your question, I "prepped" DS7 and DD7 (by giving them the sample questions provided by CTY) because it appears that is the reason why CTY provided those questions in the first place.

Actually, I personally disagreed with the idea of "prepping" for the SAT, as the skills tested on the SAT really should be acquired over the course of the student's middle and high school academic career. However, although I never prep for the SAT and only took it once, I don't have any issues with other people prepping, especially in an attempt to remediate for past neglects.

Conversely, I think that you can prep for an IQ test, at least for certain portions of the WISC IV, although perhaps not in the traditional sense of the word "prep" (long-term immersion versus short-term cramming). For example, a large component of the verbal comprehension cateogry depends on exposure to vocabulary, ideas, social norms, and general knowledge. That's why a child born into an upper-middle class family with consistent (year after year) exposure to enriched experiences and conversations should score much higher in "verbal comprehension" than an impoverished kid raised in the slums with barely literate parents, especially in the younger years.

Anyhow, I digress. Most of my original questions were out of curiosity. Actually, between DS & DD, I think I finally figured out a few things. Especially for younger children, it can hard to discern relative difficulty unless you don't know the answer.

The website says
Grade 2 >= 435 SCAT Verbal or 440 SCAT Quantitative

I wonder how many questions they need to get correct out of the 55 questions to get the above scores .

Hi Quantum 2003,

Sounds like your prep was pretty much the same as my prep for my DS (having them take the practice test), I guess our difference was in definitions. I was thinking of prepping as finding outside workbooks, etc. and drilling the types of questions involved, not explaining about the test, testing skills, etc.

I agree that in an ideal world, people wouldn't prep for the SAT, but I think, given the high stakes (college admission), that is an unlikely scenario.

And I actually did ask, not to be snarky, but because I was wondering if I was missing something - for example maybe SCAT was for some people higher stakes than I realized.

Cat

About 37 in reading and 36 in Math will get above 435 and 440 and Reading and Math respectively (for 2nd grade).

Good Luck!