Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Gifted or Not?

I am new to this. My oldest son is in first grade. Scored 146 on the Naglieri Test (ability test), which is the 99th percentile. Also have performed WISC-IV by a psychologist. Overall score was 134, but he did extremely well on the perceptual reasoning portion of the test, score of 141, again 99.7%.

As for school, in kindergarten he was above grade level by second quater in reading, writing, and math. It was a half day program. First grade is more of a challenge. He started off the year being one of the strongest readers and is now considered average. Even regressing DRA reading levels because he is not telling a good story retell. He is extremely competitive and rushes through his classwork to be the first one done. Otherwise, he gets "G" or good for grades. Even in math, he received an "O" or outstanding for his math effort, but only a "G" for his achievement level. Teacher says she does not really give "O"s in 1st and 2nd quarters. To me, I see my son starting to shut down - does not want to do a retell with me to save his life. Does not want to do a math enrichment (puzzle) pullout.

I am struggling trying to figure out why his abilities do not match his achievement. The psychologist believes that he is extremely bored and that I need to place him in a private gifted program today. She questioned the quality of his programs citing his inability to hold a pencil correctly and the variance between his verbal and nonverbal scores. School says he is not bored and may not even be gifted program material - not exceptionally curious, etc. They are not going to place him in a gifted pullout session that is starting soon because of his reading level.

Sister in law is out of state, who is an educational tester, thinks that he might have a learning disability. If it is a disbility, the school would not provide sevices anyway because he is performing at or above grade level.

Need suggestions and help....Not sure where to go from here. Is he gifted and I should be persuing this more? Should I leave him in general ed. and roll with the punches? Should I be sending him to private school that we could barely afford to get over the boredom factor until the 3rd grade full-time gifted program starts at the public schools? Would it be a bad move to place him in a gifted program and he really isn't gifted - would he become more fustrated? Thanks for reading and any advice!

I think it is really achievement is not matching potential. Sadly thousands of kids have to find a way through... I would make sure you rule out any basic barriers. And then start looking at your options... will any other school districts with better gt let you in without residency (not common these days but worth checking), what are all the non-your- district options do you have, "private" for gifted can in some cases be charter or catholic schools which - in a few cases - will get you small class size and more attention.

To all, always try to find a word choice other than bored in conferences - rubs them the way false claims of differenciation rub me ;-)

I'm not sure how your district keeps a 134 out of the program. Read the policies on their appeal process - as it sounds like you have test scores and a pysch eval on your side. Advocate and appeal (and make sure barriers are not around) before tossing out your retirement savings ;-)

imho

I would say if your child scored 146 on the Nagleiri, he is mostly certainly highly gifted (or more), at least from a visual spatial angle. The NNAT's highest score possible is 150. Our district uses the NNAT and scores above 140 are considered ceiling level for the that particular test. I had a kindergartner that presented very similarly. I had no idea he was GT before I got these scores, but I did know he wasn't very happy at school. His achievement took off soon thereafter Now he is in 4th grade, and his achievement scores are at that PG level. He actually had quite a bit of intensity as a preschooler. But he invested that energy in using the computer, mastering lego sets for much older kids, reverse engineering duct work and plumbing system, and asking a zillion questions. He never learned to read until he jumped 5 or 6 grade levels of reading in kindergarten. He just didn't have the interest in "school" type work early. He was just intense and curious. I knew nothing about GT until I got the NNAT scores.

I am truly stunned your school doesn't think your child is GT material with those scores, curious or no. I think young boys can have a very hard time if they're not engaged. If you have a GT program available to you, I would jump on it. Your child may be heavily visual spatial too (which would be consistent with an extremely high score on the NNAT, lower score verbal). So that may be something to think about. Anyway, I would definitely tend to believe your testing psychologist!

No, unfortunately our schools are run at a county level. The next county over would not allow us to attend their schools and they in fact have less of a GT program (only a 1 day/week pullout).

Our county providss full-time GT services beginning at grade 3. However, you have to qualify for the program. High test scores is one part of it. A high teacher rating is another part of it and sometimes appears to be more important than test scores. I could apply to the county full-time program from a private school. I think right now might have a better chance in getting into the county program from there. I am just worried if I go that route that maybe his current teachers are right - he is not GT material and will not be able to keep up and get him more frustrsted. I also think by sending him to private for a couple of years that he will regain his excitement because of the small teacher ratios at private school (1:9) and their teaching style (hands-on, individualized approach). The private school is a full time gifted program.

Repeat after me until you believe it "My child is GT material!". I know exactly what you're going through. But you're child is certainly GT. Picking which kids should be IDed gifted by teacher recommendation is ridiculous IMHO, unless these teachers have done some fairly substantial GT training.

This road led to homeschooling for us. I know that option is not available or desirable for every family. But look at all your options and choose what you think will work for a year at a time. You can always re-evaluate later!

The issue with the story retell is that he summarizes too much, which the teacher says is a 2nd grade skill. We need to get him to tell us all of the details, page by page. We have tried practicing with him and he is does not want to do it at all. It is very conflicted in our house about it. I have hired the reading specialist at another school to try to help him gain this skill.

His achievement was above grade level in kindergarten and we are just watching him not progress this year like he should be. Yes, he definintely could be trying to blend in.

The psychologist truly believes that he is GT material and said she would be shocked if he did not get into the fulltime program at 3rd grade with his scores. That anyone who knows how to read scores would know that he is GT. She said she would help us fight it on appeal. The problem is that we live in a good school district/high performing school. Our school sees lots of smart kids. It is the ones that are motivated too that they seem to provide the additional services to. Also he was pulled for a GT pullout in the beginning of the year, before we had any scores. The GT teacher showed up at a conference with me and proceeded to tell me that my son wss not GT because he took longer with the puszzles that they were doing and needed more help than the rest of the class. Psychologist says he is just slower because he has a lower processing speed because he is taking everything in.

I am really just struggling with what is right for my son. We have a 2 day visit scheduled for the private school this week. I guess we will send him and it will help us decide after that.

Generally, I don't think schools have the expertise to help kids like yours. You may want to start reading everything you can and look around at schooling options. Homeschooling is one way to go. Some communities have homeschooling social times and activites.

In our prior school, the GT gave my child extra work, instead of just appropriate work, after they said she wouldn't. Now, I am dealing with underachievement as the result.

You may want to consider a weekend or afterschool activitity that can foster ambition and love of learning. Some ideas - Music lessons, Nature Center Classes, Art, Science, Natural Hist. Museum Classes, Robotics, Chess.

This obviously proves that he isn't good at reading - at least reading and obeying the book called: 'This is how normal children develop.'
((shake and shiver))
Google 'Tall Poppy Syndrome'
more later,
Grinity

Thank you to everyone for your help. His other WISC-IV acores are Verbal Comprehension (VCI) - 121; Perceptual Reasoning Index (PRI) 141; Working Memory (WMI) - 110; Processing Speed Index (PSI) - 109; Full Scale - 134. Hope that helps with someone with more experience than I try to figure this out.

My son is really shutting down. Does not want to retell, does not want to do a rain forest project that the GT kids are going to do. Teacher says that his reading level is not high enough for it and he is not motivated to work on reading to do the rain forest project. Does not want to do the GT pullout for puzzles that he is eligible for. It is like he is checking out and it makes me very upset to see this going on.

Oh also I think that his personality plays a factor in this retell nonsense. He is not a flowery language kind of guy. Very cut and dry.