Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy 4 year old social issues - help!

My 4.5 year old, highly gifted son, has been in pre-school since he turned three. His school is half days, three days a week. Since he has been attending, he has yet to make any real connections with his age peers at school. He will generally play by himself or parallel play with the other children, but never initiates play or enters play with others. He is well behaved and his teachers have said they often "forget about him." He really likes school when they are learning new things, circle time, organized activities, but never can decide what to do during free play. He is always saying that the activities are boring and that he doesn't like them. He also prefers to play alone on the playground. When I take him on play dates with age peers, he usually will find some things he likes and will just play with them by himself, or he will go into his room and read. However, when he is at home and playing with me or his younger brother, he has absolutely no problem playing and will talk non-stop about anything and is so energetic and enthusiastic about learning new things, gets into imaginary play, loves our swing set, etc. He also is perfectly social with older children and adults, especially his older cousins who will play card games, board games, etc. He also has no problem talking with adult strangers are a restaurant, doctors office, etc. It's almost like he has two different personalities. Has anyone else experienced this? His pre school teacher recommended him to early intervention for social issues, and he is now in a social pragmatics group twice a week. The people who evaluated him for this, as well as his preschool teachers, have no knowledge on giftedness - they didn't even know what the WISC test was! He has also participated in sports at the YMCA, and did a summer camp last year. He followed directions and enjoyed his time with these programs, but did not form any connections or even really speak with the other kids.

I'm hoping that some of you can shed some light on this. The psych. that tested him with the WISC, thought he was perfectly social, made eye contact, etc, and think it may be that he just can't relate to the other kids at school and doesn't know how to communicate with them. She thinks that if we found him some intellectual peers, he would be more social. I have tried to find other gifted kids his age, but have not had any success. Has anyone had this problem? My biggest fear is that he won't have any true friends and will have low self esteem once he enters kindergarten. Please help! So sorry for the long post!

Hi Sunshine4, I don't know that I can offer you much advice, but I thought our story might give you some hope. I worried about all the same things for my dd5. She enjoyed pottering around at preschool last year, but didn't really have any strong social connections. She was great with adults and was good at following rules, cooperating etc., but just didn't really play with age peers unless she had to. The psych who tested her didn't have any concerns about dd socially either.

I worried about school this year and whether I'd find her wandering the playground alone - one thing in the confines of a pre-school playground, another in the context of a space big enough for a few hundred kids. This year she started in a grade 1/2 composite, skipping kindergarten. She would have been one of the youngest in the grade even if she had been in kindergarten, so now she's between 12 and 30 months younger than the other kids in her class. We're something like 4 weeks in to the term and she has a group of about 4-5 friends she regularly plays with and really enjoys. I think she just needed to find some older peers who shared her interests. So I would perhaps investigate whether entering at grade one might suit your family (if it's possible).

Best of luck.

What Giftodd advise you sounds great, but I would like to advise you something for the here and now, since I've experienced the same with some of my kids. Is there anything that you can interest your son in that other kids his age also like? It could be Legos, or bagukan, star wars, or sid the Science Kid, anything that the preschoolers play with and you can interest your child. Once you find something, speak to the teacher and ask if he can bring a toy/book (could be a library book) on the subject. These items could serve to open up conversations with the other kids. It sounds crazy, but I advise you not to let your preschooler know too much on the subject! He should know more or less like the other kids. As he becomes interested it may become hard for you to stop him from learning more, but at least he'll be at more or less at the same level as the other kids at first.

Anyway, this helped me a lot with my kids. I admit that now my nine year old is beyond that...but at least he does like Harry Potter and that gives him a subject to talk about. He can practically quote the books verbatim, but that's another story...

Took DS (4 in June) to a psychologist recently over various concerns. One concern was him not talking much with kids at preschool. He'll do a range of activities, art, building blocks, etc, and says he likes school, but compared to other kids he's usually in a corner off by himself making up stories (talking to himself). He doesn't do the kind of interactive play I see other kids his age there doing (like all climbing together on a play structure taking turns jumping off or just climbing around smiling at eachother). At all. And he definitely doesn't have a pal the way many of his age group do, someone they say hi and bye to and that they tend to travel with around the preschool.

He does play a few tag type games when others are, but doesn't initiate those things. And he does try to interact with a group of older 5 year old boys a bit, but they don't include him and his social skills in attempting play with them are way too poor to gain him entry to their clique.

The psych just watched him play -- she was like, "wow he's incredibly imaginative, is there anyone else at his school who does anything like this?" And the answer is no, some of the girls play house/cooking etc but not fast paced intricate stories going on. The pysch basically said there's probably no one there that thinks the way he does. We need to try to find him kids that are as creative for him to be around, so that there's something for him to do with another kid that's a joint process where there can be some kind of back and forth. He can currently do that somewhat with adults (though has to lead nearly always which is still a issue) but not so far with any kids.

I haven't talked to the psych more about it than really brief comments that could be made in DS's presence so still looking forward to getting more insight.

It was great to have someone easily "get him", in a way that actually resonates with what I experience. In contrast, one of the teachers at preschool sums up his talking to himself a lot by saying, "he's really auditory", and the 2nd teacher at preschool sees the same thing and says, "he really likes flowers" (because he hangs out in the garden area as it's both quiet and near where the 5 year olds congregate).

So that's a plug for just going for a play session with a child pyschologist to just get input on what they see. They can't directly help with what I already know, that finding DS friends is a problem, but just hearing they agree it's likely a mismatch between kids and not necessarily anything more serious, that was nice.

Polly

I would just like to add to what Giftodd stated. My son who was just recently tested and placed very high also had a lot of social issues in pre-school. He had a lot of potty issues when he was three and we couldn't figure out what was going on. He would have a BM accident almost every day. Unfortunately the pre-school teacher was unfit and started kicking him and letting the other children come and laugh at him in the bathroom while he was cleaning up in the bathroom. It got to the point that she would just lock him in a closet for periods of time when he would do this.

Well we finally figured out that he was lactose and tolerant around a year and a lot of money later. Anyways, once he started into elementary school he flourished socially. He still has some issues, due to the other kids not being able to keep up with his extensive vocabulary, but he still gets along with everyone and plays with a group of around 3 kids. Also, he really enjoys the company of kids around the age of 9 or 10. He seems to do a lot better conversationally with the older kids because he doesn't have to explain in detail everything he is saying.

My D (now 15) was very much a "parallel play" kid at that age. In fact, when she went for her kindergarten evaluation at the private school my older D attended, the person commented that she had done nicely, but hadn't actually spoken to any other child the whole time she was there. I have to say, D did have some behavior issues at that age (liked to "stir the pot", I would say). Maybe partly because of boredom, but also sometimes a lack of social skills on her part.

She was diagnosed with a non-verbal learning disorder a couple of years ago. She did eventually find friends at school (really not until about 4th grade, though). They are not really at her level intellectually in a lot of areas, but they get along well as a group.

I know what mycupoftea is saying about knowing too much. Far too many conversations between D and other kids started with, "Oh, you like Harry Potter, too?". Then D would bowl them over with her intricate (almost verbatim) knowledge of all things HP. And then D would be disappointed when the other kid's knowledge was fairly superficial.

Are you sure you're not talking about MY DS9? *lol*

No real advice for the OP, but we have been in your shoes, so maybe our experience combined with those of others will help ease your mind.

Until DS was partway through 1st grade, each time we'd visit the school at recess, he'd be he'd be walking alone around the perimeter of the playground. It made me want to cry. Some of it was obviously a battle with perfectionism in some of the outside games. He was horrified to miss a basket or get called out in kickball in front of everyone. When he did play with others, it was primarily tag-type games. Thankfully, his self-esteem and self-confidence seem to have blossomed in the past couple years.

The other piece is I think for these kids who are so intellectually advanced early on, the gap really is HUGE with the other agemates, and it's difficult for the child to understand especially if they're used to being around adults. While I will not say the unthinkable "everyone evens out by 3rd grade" I do think that the gap becomes less a bit less glaring, especially as some GT kids will learn how to speak to their agemates in a way that is accepted.

DS9 in 3rd grade now has 2 pretty good friends. He also seems to be comfortable that he's not a "trendy" kid. DS still doesn't like many things that are popular, and the things he loves are generally not mainstream, and he's OK with that. Bottom line, is DS the most-popular kid in class? Not by a long shot! But he's pretty happy these days.

I think it's definitely worth it to try to find an activity that your DS likes where he might be able to connect with the others kids. If it doesn't work, I'd be willing to bet that in the next couple years, the situation will improve some. As DC have gotten older, it's become a bit easier to find activities (e.g., chess camp) where there are frequently other kids that they relate to.

Thank you all for your responses and I'm so glad to hear you all had some similar experiences.

Mama22gs- I cannot believe your child walks along the perimeter of the playground! My son does that almost every day, and I have watched with tears coming down my face. It's so sad to see him doing that when all the other kids are playing and running around with others. He is not interested in that at all. I have asked him what he did during outside time, and he will reply, "nothing really, I just walked around and thought about things." I am hoping that he will meet some friends next year that are more at this level, although I am nervous that next year when kids are older, they will just think he's weird. It breaks my heart. I guess he's happy though, and that's all that matters.

I have heard that the more gifted the child is, the more trouble he will have socially. Does this seem true for all of you? In my experience watching kids who are more moderately gifted, they seem to interact better socially and not seem as out of place.

Thanks again!

Hi sunshine4
My DS 5 last year was often wandering around the playground at school thinking, this year, now, inside because of the cold, will often sit and read. I was more perturbed by it last year, now I recognize that he is simply more interested most of the time in what goes on his own head, when he wants out or is nudged out, he is perfectly social with is age mates, but he does prefer older kids because they are familiar with what he is reading and learning. Although I do have to say with my help he is learning how to get kids interested in what is in his head - don't use the robot voice first off - explain the story, etc.

And I second not using the dreaded they all even out at 3rd grade but it's more likely then to find someone who might be reading what your reading or at least interested in it. At this age the vocab and knowledge gap is much larger between the nd and the very advanced. Put another way a moderately gifted at 4 is reading fancy Nancy where the other kids have it read to them, where DS might read a similar picture book because its there, he is also reading about black holes, the formation of the universe, super heros, and Australia (not in the same book LOL)

DeHe

Mine has been a perimeter-walker too. In his case it's not primarily due to his being "above" other kids in subject matter, it's because his social skills are poor due to Asperger's Syndrome. His interests are unusual, true, but it's the fact that he doesn't have good judgment about when to talk about what with friends, and his poor game-joining skills, that make him liable to be alone. I think this situation would not look so very different if our DS weren't gifted.

We're actively remediating social skills and see that he's become much more able to participate on the playground and elsewhere than he had been. The playground, after all, isn't about intellect or black holes or whatever-- it's about having the sportsmanship skills to be able to play kickball or whatever, and to want to join others in play.

DeeDee