Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about the Davidson Academyís online campus for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute
  • DITD FaceBook   DITD Twitter   DITD YouTube
    The Davidson Institute is on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube!

    How gifted-friendly is
    your state?

    Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update

    Who's Online
    0 registered (), 0 Guests and 65 Spiders online.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Jasmine Kurb, stevesmith1699, Phoebe Norman, EMdigitizer, Thomas White
    11264 Registered Users
    January
    Su M Tu W Th F Sa
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7
    8 9 10 11 12 13 14
    15 16 17 18 19 20 21
    22 23 24 25 26 27 28
    29 30 31
    Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
    Topic Options
    #95436 - 02/24/11 10:51 AM x
    master of none Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/18/08
    Posts: 2946
    j


    Edited by master of none (12/27/13 07:03 PM)

    Top
    #95437 - 02/24/11 11:15 AM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    mnmom23 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/11/09
    Posts: 701
    Hi mon,

    I wanted to ask a few questions. You say that your DD is well-liked by her classmates but her best friends are her age-mates. Do you think it's because her interests and sensibilities are age-appropriate or do you think that she is just more used to her age-mate friends?

    Also, how is it that your DD doesn't qualify for the GT program if the school saw fit to accelerate her? I know it's different in every district, but our district requires testing that reflects a much faster rate of learing at a much higher level than age-mates and acceleration is only allowed when the gifted program is deemed insufficient to meet the child's needs on it's own. Also, could you tell us a little about your SD's gifted program at the middle school level? Is it a one-hour gifted class or does it change the whole scope of the curriculum?

    I was one of those people who was not challenged in school and then got to college with no study skills. There are worse things in life -- as I ended up being successful in college -- but I certainly based my choice of major on what came the most easilty to me rather than on the profession that I'd always dreamed of since some of those classes were harder to do well in. I assumed that since the classes were difficult I was not good at them, which isn't true. So, as a result, I have tried to get my kids into a school situation where they have to work a little bit and occasionally be frustrated a little bit when things don't come easily to them. In school I want them to learn new things and learn to work a bit.

    I think this is something you could work on if you were to HS DD for a year. And maybe she would feel more comfortable with increased challenge and frustration in the safety and privacy of the HSing situation. I think it's fine to decellerate DD grade-wise if you think that's best, but IMO it would be important when she returns to school to advocate for appropriate work without the grade skip. Unfortunately, this isn't always the easy route to go, and you might end up having to find outside opportunities to encourage her to stretch her mind.
    _________________________
    She thought she could, so she did.

    Top
    #95444 - 02/24/11 01:56 PM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    mnmom23 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/11/09
    Posts: 701
    Originally Posted By: master of none
    The question Iím asking is really developmental I think. When do you start requiring a child to work for their academic achievement? At what point does social become less important than academic performance (if it does)? Is it enough in middle school to just be liked? Or is it important for her to be at her social developmental level?


    I'm not sure that social ever becomes less important than academic performance. A child needs to be happy and like school and want to be there, if only because they are there for so much of their lives. And, it may be enough in middle school to just be liked. I know that the social piece is something that the whole middle school concept is built around. But I would guess the question might be more or less a matter of your DD's personality. Does she seek challenge when left to her own devices? Does she need guidance from you to tackle challenges (in which case you might want to be there to help shepherd her through the process while she's still young and at home with you) or does she eventually gather up the courage and perseverance to tackle challenges on her own with little to no help from you (in which case she might be fine without an academically challenging adolescence)?

    Originally Posted By: master of none
    She is the kind of child who, when unchallenged, develops a resistance, and then in a very ADHD like way avoids the task, which makes her think she canít do it, and itís just a downward spiral. It only takes a little push to get her through.

    This would make me want to slowly and gradually ramp up her level of challenge to help her develop less avoidance and more willingness to tackle difficult things. If HS is the way that you think you're heading, this would be something you could aim to work on with her without fear of social rejection or losing her status in the class as "the smart one."


    Edited by mnmom23 (02/24/11 02:11 PM)
    _________________________
    She thought she could, so she did.

    Top
    #95485 - 02/25/11 07:58 AM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    treecritter Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/25/10
    Posts: 111
    I personally think that academics should be a challenge at EVERY level. Don't get me wrong, she shouldn't be panicking over getting into her chosen college just yet. But I see the brain as a muscle - if you use it, it gets stronger. If you don't, it atrophies. If I were in your shoes (and please keep in mind that I"m not - you know your child, I don't) I would keep her in the new class. I think I would wonder about the fact that she didn't qualify for GT, though - if she's advanced enough to skip a grade, I see no reason why she shouldn't be advanced enough for GT. Maybe talk to her, see if there was something going on the day of the test, and if possible, talk to the teacher about it as well. Still, even if she isn't in GT, at least she will have class work that is a bit more challenging for her.
    As far as the social issue, why not set up regular events on weekends when she can play with her old friends? Invite them over for a slumber party, or take them out for a picnic or something.

    Top
    #95493 - 02/25/11 10:07 AM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    With a girl, I actually think that this may be MORE important at preadolescence, since gifted girls so often go "underground" when they reach material that actually requires effort (often in middle school or high school).

    There is sometimes a real disconnect for them in terms of understanding that having to work doesn't take anything away from them in terms of being "gifted." Girls in particular seem sucsceptible to imposter syndrome, as well-- attributing former successes to "luck" and internalizing seeming failures as evidence of personal failings (ie-- no longer just knowing material effortlessly is often interpreted as overt failure here).

    I think between 8 and 11 is the ideal time to make certain that girls understand that working hard doesn't mean that they aren't as smart as they've always thought. smile
    _________________________
    SchrŲdinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

    Top
    #95494 - 02/25/11 10:16 AM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    bh14 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/09
    Posts: 367
    My daughter also had a skip this year. She still is friends with the kids from the last 3 years, but has made new friends. If she was qualified for a skip (and I am totally at a loss on why they would allow that but not be in GT. Something is WRONG there... BIG TIME!) Anyhow, I think that you should explain to her that she can have many groups of different friends. I think it is important to keep her challenged. I don' t think moving her back so that she could be with her old friends is an ideal solution. This may even lead to bigger problems down the road, such as severe underachievement, tuning out, losing interest in anything academic etc. Try to get her more involved with her friends from the 5th grade so that she feels that same bond. I know, it's hard, my DD came in after these kids had been together for years as well, and many friendships were already formed. If your DD was having a hard time with the work also, then I'd be more likely to say maybe she wasn't ready for the skip. Was she against the skip in the first place?


    Top
    #95511 - 02/25/11 01:38 PM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    deacongirl Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/03/10
    Posts: 948
    I have no idea how relevant this might be or if this will resonate with anyone re: girls and their friends, but as I contemplate my dd navigating the world of middle school cliques this struck me:
    http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=133871975

    GROSS: You have a couple of lines about cliques. Would you read that for us?

    Ms. PEARSON: This is Petra reflecting on the fact that she has recently been admitted to queen bee Jillian's group with mixed consequences.

    (Reading) You chose the kind of friends you wanted because you hoped you could be like them and not like you. To improve your image, you made yourself more stupid and less kind. As the months passed, the tradeoff for belonging started to feel too great, the shutting down of some vital part of yourself just so you could be included on the shopping trip into town, not have to sit on your own at lunch or have someone to walk home with.

    Now, among friends, you are often lonelier than you had been before. The hierarchy of girls was so much more brutal than that of boys. The boys battled for supremacy out on the pitch, and after, they showered away the harm. The girls played dirtier. For girls, it was never just a game.

    Top
    #96122 - 03/04/11 01:59 PM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    inky Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/10/08
    Posts: 1299
    This is great! The board wisdom is on a roll today. smile
    Originally Posted By: master of none
    We chose discipline of the mind as the priority: learning to attack problems and see them through until solved. When she is allowed to avoid, she loses confidence in her abilities and of course gets nothing done. So, our first goal of homeschooling is to learn how to follow through on her dreams with a practical plan. And that naturally means she needs to push herself. So the academics, as well as other life areas will come with it. Social comes after that with this reasoning: When she is confident in herself and who she is, she is in better shape to find true friends.

    Top
    #96139 - 03/04/11 04:28 PM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Originally Posted By: master of none

    Which means we will be taking the plunge into homeschooling!
    She wants to write a musical.

    Congratulations! Thanks for the update. Love your motto!
    Grinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

    Top
    #121816 - 02/03/12 08:13 AM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    lmp Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/02/10
    Posts: 90
    -


    Edited by lmp (03/28/12 08:47 AM)

    Top
    #121820 - 02/03/12 08:34 AM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    islandofapples Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/20/11
    Posts: 332
    Originally Posted By: master of none

    EXCEPT: She has not improved in her tolerance for easy work. She can work for 6 hours straight on work that is advanced 3-5 years ahead of her age level, but give her something easier, and she is very likely to be stopped in her tracks, avoid it, tune out, and then melt down when her lack of attention results in wrong answers. ADHD?



    So, now onto goals for next year:
    We are hoping she can go to 6th grade and be happy. She is highly social and thatís her reason for going to school, but she is torn about whether academics or social are more important to her. (Nice improvement because it was ME wondering that last year- now she is the one owning the problem)

    Any of you with older kids or experience as a GT yourself have any insight into this? Are we crazy to even try this? Does the fact that easy stuff overwhelms her point to ADHD? Any strategies for dealing with that problem? Any comments, thoughts, personal stories appreciated.


    Do you have a homeschool group near you? That way she can have the social experience and still own her own education.
    It is so inspiring to hear how well homeschooling has worked out for her.

    As to this: " Does the fact that easy stuff overwhelms her point to ADHD?"
    No! Focusing on boring stuff is boring. Human beings aren't meant to sit around doing tedious repetitive work for long stretches...If they have to do it, they only do it because there is a really good reason (like, you'll starve if you don't plant the crops or make dinner.)
    I'm actually avoiding doing some extremely boring repetitive stuff for my business right now. All those years of schooling didn't make it easier for me to suck it up and just do it. But I am going to do it, because I have some exciting goals I want to accomplish and they require this early bit of mind-numbingly boring work. The key here is that I am self-motivated to accomplish a long-term goal. I am passionate about what I'm doing and willing to suffer through the easy / boring bits.

    (But don't ask me to learn Calculus for fun right now. My DH is upstairs dying of boredom, too, doing problems on MyMathLab. It isn't that it is hard, it is that the problems take forever and if you make one tiny mistake or format the answer incorrectly, the program makes you redo the entire problem all over again using new numbers. It is horrific. But he is sticking to it, because he really wants to be a software engineer.)

    I don't think you can impose boring work on a child and think that will teach patience and how to deal with boring work. You let them follow what they are passionate about, and I guarantee you they'll engage in the boring / tedious / easy bits to get to where they want to be.

    Ok. Back to work for me. wink


    Edited by islandofapples (02/03/12 08:41 AM)

    Top
    #121824 - 02/03/12 09:37 AM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: islandofapples]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3296
    Loc: California
    Originally Posted By: islandofapples
    As to this: " Does the fact that easy stuff overwhelms her point to ADHD?"
    No! Focusing on boring stuff is boring. Human beings aren't meant to sit around doing tedious repetitive work for long stretches...If they have to do it, they only do it because there is a really good reason (like, you'll starve if you don't plant the crops or make dinner.)

    I don't think you can impose boring work on a child and think that will teach patience and how to deal with boring work.


    I couldn't agree more! I think that you teach resentment by forcing children (or adults) to do boring work that has no absolutely no point.


    Originally Posted By: islandofapples
    My DH is upstairs dying of boredom, too, doing problems on MyMathLab. It isn't that it is hard, it is that the problems take forever and if you make one tiny mistake or format the answer incorrectly, the program makes you redo the entire problem all over again using new numbers. It is horrific. But he is sticking to it, because he really wants to be a software engineer.)


    He doesn't have to suffer! I re-taught myself calculus last year. I bought Calculus for Dummies plus the workbook and a good textbook and a solutions manual + The Calculus Lifesaver. The Dummies guide is great for teaching the basic stuff, the textbook provided harder problems and solutions, and the Calculus Lifesaver provided LOTS of detailed information. This way, you can write the problems on paper and not have to start all over again because you forgot a bracket or whatever.

    Top
    #121831 - 02/03/12 10:53 AM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: Val]
    islandofapples Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/20/11
    Posts: 332
    Originally Posted By: Val
    Originally Posted By: islandofapples
    As to this: " Does the fact that easy stuff overwhelms her point to ADHD?"
    No! Focusing on boring stuff is boring. Human beings aren't meant to sit around doing tedious repetitive work for long stretches...If they have to do it, they only do it because there is a really good reason (like, you'll starve if you don't plant the crops or make dinner.)

    I don't think you can impose boring work on a child and think that will teach patience and how to deal with boring work.


    I couldn't agree more! I think that you teach resentment by forcing children (or adults) to do boring work that has no absolutely no point.


    Originally Posted By: islandofapples
    My DH is upstairs dying of boredom, too, doing problems on MyMathLab. It isn't that it is hard, it is that the problems take forever and if you make one tiny mistake or format the answer incorrectly, the program makes you redo the entire problem all over again using new numbers. It is horrific. But he is sticking to it, because he really wants to be a software engineer.)


    He doesn't have to suffer! I re-taught myself calculus last year. I bought Calculus for Dummies plus the workbook and a good textbook and a solutions manual + The Calculus Lifesaver. The Dummies guide is great for teaching the basic stuff, the textbook provided harder problems and solutions, and the Calculus Lifesaver provided LOTS of detailed information. This way, you can write the problems on paper and not have to start all over again because you forgot a bracket or whatever.


    Your calculus experience sounds less dreadful, but DH is completing his degree that he started when we were living in another state, so most of his classes are online now. The classes online require MyMathLab. He takes one extra class in person at a local school a semester so we can get his GI bill money. He isn't working right now, either, which is good since I have to work on my business (which I am clearly not doing since I am still on here!!! ;D)

    Top
    #121847 - 02/03/12 12:25 PM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    lmp Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/02/10
    Posts: 90
    -



    Edited by lmp (03/28/12 08:47 AM)

    Top
    #121858 - 02/03/12 01:39 PM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    islandofapples Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/20/11
    Posts: 332
    Originally Posted By: master of none


    That's good to hear. I hear so much on this board that ADHD is about not being able to focus on uninteresting things. Plus, dd has a bit of extra energy and some impulsivity. Never had a focus problem in school, but often at home (reading books instead of cleaning, showering, etc)



    Who wouldn't want to read a book instead of showering and cleaning? :-)

    Top
    #121892 - 02/03/12 05:11 PM Re: parenting crossroads [Re: master of none]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1685
    MON,
    I don't have anything to offer though very intested as I look at a potential grade skip for DD and how she would adjust.

    Having a kid that needs the social outlet, likes the socialization of school -- and it is much different than being in a ballet class or something -- makes the grade skip an issue. Especially as you near that puberty age.

    Good luck with the HS. I do not know how that will work, going back into a grade when she will probably accelerate more rapidly at home. But I would really like to hear. I am thinking of doing a grade skip within a girls private school. The private seems the best option for education and other reasons. Though it will cost 35K a year.

    Ren

    Top
    Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


    Moderator:  M-Moderator, Mark D. 
    Recent Posts
    Looking for advice on how to proceed...
    by aeh
    Yesterday at 01:04 PM
    Correlation btw WASI & WISC? Referral form weight?
    by Mali
    01/27/23 12:06 AM
    Recommendations for high-IQ society to join?
    by indigo
    01/20/23 05:02 PM
    Helping gifted ppl
    by indigo
    01/20/23 04:55 PM
    2e or Misbehaving Because of Other Reasons?
    by aeh
    01/14/23 05:03 PM
    Davidson Institute Twitter