Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Question re: EPGY at school

It is unclear to me from what I have read here and on the EPGY website whether the elementary online or computer based courses are something that a school could use with its gifted kids. Has anyone had their child use EPGY at school? How did it work out?

I just started the open enrollment with my dd and would be curious if that is something she could log into from the school. That may be a good tool for them to use with her.

My DD8 does EPGY (open enrollment) during her class math time in second grade (public school). The only downside is that the teacher understandably can't do a lot of one-on-one time if my DD has a question. But EPGY's allowed her to go more at her own pace, and for the most part she likes it.

The teacher (who has been wonderfully accommodating) has also allowed her to work on other math Web sites that help with math fact speed.

So, bottom line--I think it's a great idea!

This is one of my biggest complaints about trying to use EPGY in the classroom. When the child gets stuck on a concept and can't get help, there is absolutely no way to stop a given topic and move on to another.

So if a child hits a wall (3-digit long-division was a doozy in our household), he will get stuck in an interminable loop. After a series of wrong answers, EPGY will drop the kid back to the previous topic assuming a need to reinforce the prior concept. Unfortunately, this would happen a.) whether or not the prior concept was related to the problem topic, and b.) regardless of how many times this earlier concept was answered 100% correctly.

After nailing the prior topic (again & again), the student is returned to the problematic concept. But without the help of the teacher, the only way to escape the loop are to quit EPGY altogether, or cheat by entering the correct answers written down when revealed after previous failed attempts. (He finally resorted to this last option, but he told me what he did. I couldn't blame him, actually. Besides, he'd been presented with the same danged problems so many times, he'd just memorized the answers!)

Although there is an option to "give up," this does nothing for bailing out of the topic altogether.... and ultimately, all those wrong answers really hurt the running score and frustrate the heck out of the kid.

Lastly, EPGY operates with a fixed problem set, so a kid stuck in one of these loops will eventually be faced with identical problems... over & over.

Other programs, like ALEKS, will allow a kid to back out of a topic at any time and move onto something else of the child's choosing. This way, the student can wait to get help from a parent/teacher at a later time, but still continue to make progress in general. Also, ALEKS uses a dynamic problem generator, so that the child will rarely, if ever, see an identical problem twice. (While the program might repeat a problem's setup by asking again about cookies shared between Adam, Bobby and Cindy, for example, the numbers involved will almost always be different.)

I am disappointed that a prestigious university like Stanford -- especially given the price of the program -- has not updated their software in what seems like decades. While I'm very happy with the breadth & depth of the topics covered within each grade level, they really need to bring the math program functionality into the 21st Century.

Ideally, they would keep their breadth & depth while employing the interface and AI used by ALEKS. Marrying these with lectures from Dr. Burger over at Thinkwell would be superb.

The best solution for us turned out to be quite simple. We arranged with his teacher to spend his math time in class doing homework, and then he'd spend his homework time at home doing math. This worked out great for DS, but good grief, did I have to learn a lot of stuff I'd long since forgotten (and had no particular desire to learn again!!!!!).

Why can't the teacher help with this? Is it just not having the knowledge or is there some rule in place that would prevent them from influencing the 'natural' flow of the program?

Some schools allow it and some don't. Our principal doesn't allow it, even in G&T classes. The next school in the district encourages enrollment in CTY and allows kids to do their CTY math during the math period.

Ren

My DS used Aleks last year in school. When he had trouble, he backed out, went on to something else and brought his problem home.

We use open enrollment for DS6 and he has used it at school a few times this year. But the school stated that the program was really slow for some reason both times he tried it though, so he hasn't really used it since since he spends all his time waiting for it to load. I think they are okay with him using it though. He doesn't really have much time to use it anyhow as he goes to another class for math, has math enrichment and math olympiads. I suggested they use it for reading too and ELA, but they gave him accelerated stuff for that now too. I do think it would be a good option though especially if you have a kid that can watch the little tutorial and plow on through.

Another good option for school is khan academy. My son does that at school some too. The school recently got him an account to use so he can do the exercises at home and school. He seems to like it and it moves quickly and is free.

I think no matter what system you're using, you have to work out something where the child can either get help from the teacher or back out and bring it home. DS had been using ALEKS in the classroom up until January. When he needed a different explanation than the one in the program, his teacher wouldn't help him. He brought it home and I explained it, he moved on.

I didn't know at the time that just the mere asking of the question proved the teacher's case that he "can't" work independently. She has since prohibited him from doing ALEKS at his level in class and has moved him to Accelerated Math. (Which despite the name is not accelerated...think Accelerated Reader).

Just make sure you have a plan that everyone has some level of buy-in!

I posted something similar in another post. We've used ALEKs, Khan, and Alcumus (AoPS). Before DS's current GIEP was finalized, the school purchased and set up ALEKs. He was to work on this during the math period in his regular classroom.

I think a lot of this depends on the classroom and your teacher. ALEKs does require some input from the instructor to be really effective IMO. Since they were trying to let DS work on his own while the teacher focused on the rest of the class, it's not been as successful as it could have been.

At home we've found the free Khan and Alcumus programs to be better than the purchased ALEKs. Both Khan and Alcumus are better at having kids go at their own pace with less instructor input (although some input, especially at the beginning, is necessary).

Good luck.

JB

We've had this happen too.

JB

good points, and other program issues. I know last year DS6's school bought a program for him to use that was messed up and not working right half the time. no one know how to fix it so he didn't use it consistently. Sometimes it wouldn't work right and move him along. He would explain the problem repeatedly, but no one could help and they thought he was asking for help with the work. I think it is pretty normal for a kid to need to ask for help from time to time and still be working "independently" If you have to sit next to them the whole time and explain every step then that is a different story.

Thanks for all the input. I don't really want my DS to necessarily work independently, but he is in 1st grade and goes to a second grade class for Math and it is still very easy.

I am just thinking of and trying to get opinions on different options to think about, so I really do appreciate all the comments on the different programs here.

They have ALEKS at my DS's school but not until 3rd grade. I am definitely going to look into Khan and Alcumus. Thanks again.