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#92710 - 01/14/11 09:06 AM Help interpreting strange RIAS scores
ultramarina Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 2637
edited for privacy reasons


Edited by ultramarina (03/10/14 01:17 PM)

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#92714 - 01/14/11 09:18 AM Re: Help interpreting strange RIAS scores [Re: ultramarina]
Grinity Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 7201
Loc: Connecticut
I'm not familiar with this particular test, but she did get placed into the gifted program. Is it much of a program? Is it likely to meet her educational needs? Is it limited to 90 minutes/week?

If there is a chance that it will meet her needs then I don't think private testing is needed. You may want to read '5 levels of Giftedness' by Dr. Deb Ruf and see if you think the testing the school did 'paints an accurate picture' of what you are seeing at home.

As for the 'what's missing' score - in every IQ tests there are subtests that are less highly correlatable with intelligence. So if 'what's missing' is one of those then you don't have to worry (at all) about it as long as it's within range of normal. It's not unusual for a kid to do much much worse in one or two sections. If you are seeing something in real life that seems related, then it's ok to explore more. I wouldn't re-evaluate your view of your child's intelligence based on any IQ score. If you see it, it's real, even if the test doesn't show it.

Love and More Love,
Grinity
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#92719 - 01/14/11 09:41 AM Re: Help interpreting strange RIAS scores [Re: ultramarina]
ultramarina Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 2637
I think what sort of confuses me is that What's Missing and Odd Item Out are both supposed to be nonverbal, so why high on one and average on the other? Do they measure different kinds of skills? Looks like Odd One Out is spatial, which I would say is her weakest area. Could there be some visual thing at play here? Or...hmmm...the low score was the last subtest. The test is only 30 minutes, but maybe she was "done"?

The question of whether the program will be adequate is not an easy one to answer. Probably not. I'd like to know if she is DYS bright or "just" high-achiever bright.

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#92725 - 01/14/11 10:45 AM Re: Help interpreting strange RIAS scores [Re: ultramarina]
Grinity Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 7201
Loc: Connecticut
Originally Posted By: ultramarina
The question of whether the program will be adequate is not an easy one to answer. Probably not. I'd like to know if she is DYS bright or "just" high-achiever bright.

Can you arrange to go and visit the program to see what is actually going on?
That might be a pleasant suprise or a rude awakening. See if you can make an appointment. Do a little bit of 'afterschooling' to see what your DD is like as a learner. This is the 'next important thing to pay attention to.'


Notice that I'm not answering your questions about the various subscores - at a certian point it's like reading tea leaves - the tests aren't perfect...

Love and more love,
Grinity
_________________________
Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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#92730 - 01/14/11 11:39 AM Re: Help interpreting strange RIAS scores [Re: ultramarina]
mich Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 272
From what I have learned listening to psychologists describe the RIAS and the What's Missing subtest in particular is that it is a non-verbal measure that is similar to the Picture Completion of the WISC that measures alertness to details and visual discrimination. Generally, more than a 15 point difference between any scores is considered significantly significant and an indicator of a relative strength or weakness. That said, it is not that unusual to have some variations in scores between tests.

If you want to get more information in the visual integration/ visual perception realm, at some point you could have her evaluated using other cognitive tests such as the WISC IV, ROCF test and others.

These scores alone do not point to a problem by any means. And, you have no idea if this score is even an accurate measure of her skills in this specific area. What you have is a score that reflects how she did on the test at a point in time.

If she does not have any problems - and it doesn't sound like she does - I might just put it in the back of your mind, and support her as she enters into the gifted program. If she is "just" high-achiever bright and happy, this would not be a bad thing.

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#92738 - 01/14/11 12:17 PM Re: Help interpreting strange RIAS scores [Re: ultramarina]
ultramarina Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 2637
See, I would have said that alertness to detail and visual discrimination were major strengths. She is a very talented artist. If it is a test of spatial ability, like mentally rotating objects or something, then I would think the score might be accurate. She still mixes up right and left sometimes, is not all that mechanical, and is not a puzzle-oriented kid (well, she can do 100 or 200-piecers, but it's nothing like what I have heard other people describe for gifties).

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#92802 - 01/15/11 06:55 AM Re: Help interpreting strange RIAS scores [Re: ultramarina]
ultramarina Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 2637
No, I can't say we notice deficits except perhaps in a few concrete spatial skills, as I mentioned.

Also, DD's principal told us after giving us these scores that there are "at least 3 and probably 5" kids in her class who are as gifted as she is. This is rather statistically unlikely, isn't it??

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#92820 - 01/15/11 10:41 AM Re: Help interpreting strange RIAS scores [Re: ultramarina]
ultramarina Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 2637
No, no achievement testing, which is a little frustrating, but c'est la vie. She won't be achievement-tested till 3rd grade.

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#92821 - 01/15/11 10:45 AM Re: Help interpreting strange RIAS scores [Re: ultramarina]
aculady Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1040
I don't know that I would say that the RIAS is "less accurate" than the WISC, but it is shorter and doesn't assess skills in as many different domains. The domains that it does assess are highly correlated with "g". Someone who is not gifted is not going to get a high score on the RIAS.

Many WISC subtests are not even close to pure measures of intelligence, but are instead measures of intelligence plus motor skills, attention, or other functions. This means that the WISC scores (even the GAI, which includes both the block design and comprehension subtests) for some gifted people with motor or visual-motor disabilities, AS, or some other issues will be depressed. The RIAS is sometimes used as an entrance test for school gifted programs because it is both quick to administer and it isn't as likely to screen out children who have co-existing disabilities. The WISC is a much better tool to get a detailed picture of functioning and to help identify areas that might be in need of further evaluation to rule out disabilities, but it can be a "less accurate" measure of overall intelligence for those who do have them.


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#92824 - 01/15/11 10:59 AM Re: Help interpreting strange RIAS scores [Re: Dottie]
Cricket2 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 2172
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Dottie
I tend to find myself in quite a few "statistically unlikely" situations. For example, most of our development is in the GT program. Hmmm... So yes, all bets could be off, and there could be 3-5 equal peers. On the flip side, after scoring in the 99.9th percentile for reading, I was shocked to hear the school say "we have lots of kids that test like that". I'm fairly certain their translation was "we have lots of kids that are above level". The 99.9th score was meaningless to them...but they do have "lots of kids" above the 90th, even the 95th, and to them they are a common group. It took us years to convince them that his math (much higher than reading) was truly unique.

Totally OT, but this comment of yours was enlightening for me. We, too, have a neighborhood and region with a statistically unlikely percentage of kids in GT programming, but we got a totally different response when we gave dd12's test scores (IQ and WJ) to her district when she was in 2nd grade. The district GT coordinator at the time told me that the higher-ups in the district were "philosophically opposed" to meeting her needs, she wasn't going to last long in public school, and asked if I had considered homeschooling her. Either she had a better understanding of what the scores meant than your district did wink with your ds' (which are certainly higher than my dd's!) or our neighborhood isn't that skewed, the identification is what is skewed.

In re to the OP, I too wouldn't be hugely worried about that one lower area especially if you feel that it is an inaccurate representation of your dd. I'm begining to wonder if my younger dd's slower processing speed scores on the WISC are truly slower processing or a child who made a lot of mistakes on the visual scanning required for that part of the test (more likely in her case). My older dd is clearly slower than able (what her WISC shows), but that type of pattern doesn't seem to be the case for my youngest despite that being what it looks like on the WISC. I wish that the testers had told us what that test looked like (lots of mistakes, looking back and forth at the key, or just slow coding, etc.)
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