Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy emotions and expectations

Reading Ruf's book, I think DD3 is somewhere in the level 3/4 range. I think she was a couple of months behind the milestones in level 5, but I think she is amazing, in the Bill Clinton/Barack Obama league of brains.

I think I have mentioned about the gifted elementary school at Hunter College in Manhattan. This year they cut off the entrance to the second round evaluation at 98th percentile of the SB (I think SB4). I know 3 kids that got into the second round. There were 278 kids for 50 spots, about 6:5 ratio girls to boys. My friend's son did not make it or even get waitlisted. It is hard for her not to feel like a sentence was placed that your son really isn't gifted.

In this forum, there is part competiveness, part protective, that you want your child to be uber great. Sometimes it is hard to separate the emotions from the reality. How exactly does our child learn, how gifted, in what way gifted. Ruf is right, there is no one way, no one gifted identity. We have topics about homeschooling is best, but Ruf says homeschooling is not good for the extrovert, that homeschooling is bad for the extrovert. Haven't even seen that mentioned here on the homeschooling dialogue.

I am finding it hard to be objective about DD3 and her path a lot of the time.

Just a post for my need.

Ren

Wren,
Please tell your friend, from me, that gifted comes in all flavors. If gifted is about having special educational needs, then a child who has educational needs that aren't being met, belongs in this category. Is it true that someday schools maybe set up in flexible ways that met the learning needs of all children. Will there be no more gifted children at that time? I sure hope so. There will be plenty of talented children instead. This world needs every drop of it's human talent, and it's human compassion, and it's human imagination.

Sleep well,
Grinity

It's important to remember that all sort of gifts aren't measured by IQ tests. Good friends of ours have a child the same age as our son. She is a musical prodigy. It isn't anything that would show up on an IQ or achievement test. That doesn't mean it's any less important or magical. The same goes for everything else that IQ tests don't measure, like sports, visual arts, or social intelligence.

Tara

I have found that DDs educational needs change from time to time. We are now considering homeschooling, because brick and mortar schools don't seem a good fit. But I anticipate that she will go to typical HS at some point. It's great that you have discovered your child's giftedness this early. Many of us thought all children develop at this rate and some (read:me) still doubt it despite exceptional test results. Last night while driving home, DDs conversation went from chromosomes to Jonas Brothers (a popular boy band) and I participated equally. On one hand I see the giftedness, and then the little girl emerges.

Also, I would keep in mind that some child are brilliant, but may not exhibit it in a typical school setting. Giftedness doesn't always mean a child is a well rounded scholar. They may be gifted in one area and struggle with another.

Ren-

I don't think people on this board are competitive. Or were you talking about the school?

Deborah Ruf's kids are all grown. She is probably not in tune with the sheer numbers of homeschoolers now, or how instantly they can connect through the internet and today's easier access to information. I will not pooh pooh your concern- it is a valid one. My husband and I were worried about what would happen to our extrovert when we brought him home to learn. Seven years later, I cannot believe this was an issue! My son is still a social kid who has many friends. He takes part in a book club, theater group, sports, scouts, and more. Our homeschool support group meets several times a month and there are always impromptu playdates happening.

The outgoing child absolutely can slake his thirst for companionship while homeschooling. In fact, he may cast a wider net this way, and is not restricted to the same 27 other kids day in and day out.

I agree with Lorel's comment about the competitiveness. I find this board to be incredibly supportive, not at all competitive. In fact, it's somewhat comforting for me to see how hugely more advanced so many of the other children are on this board. And, whether I'm looking at Ruf levels or test scores, DS is what DS is, and there's nothing I can or would want to do about it other than support him for both his strengths and weaknesses - and before I happened on this board, I didn't know that he needed support for his strengths.

I feel for you, Ren, however, living in the ultra-competitive world of NYC. Hard not to get drawn into it when people, like my friends, parents of twins, are advised to apply to 10-15 preschools to ensure at least one acceptance.

Lorel - I totally agree with you. We are close with a couple of homeschooling families. If anything, I think these kids get more positive social opportunities than DS does at his public school. Homeschooled kids we've been in contact with are unusually articulate and socialize well with kids and adults. I don't think everyone can or should homeschool. And it's certainly not best if you don't want to do it! I'm not sure if we will. But I don't think having an extroverted child is necessarily a deterrent.

I don't think the board's at all competitive either? At least I don't look at it at that way at all. I love seeing what a wide range of GT looks like. This is one of the few places I can talk about DS with all his strengths and weaknesses.

I do feel for you Wren! I'm not sure we as a family could live in such an intense atmosphere in preschool. We are put off by the attitudes some parents have about our local GT magnet. Some families act like their children are at Harvard. And this is NOT a hard school to qualify for (92nd perceptile on NNAT or portfolio and random lottery - we did not get in due to lottery). The vast majority of kids are MG. We're not actually sure our DS would even be well served there at this point.

The fact that more girls than boys qualify says a little something about the process to get in this school. It is really picking the kids that test and interview well on particular days at age 4. I'm sure they turn away many kids that are "very" GT. I'm quite sure our DS (who we think is a level 4 kind of kid) would have failed miserably at this type of process at that age! He would not jump through other people's hoops at 3 and 4. This is why he didn't go to a Montissori. He was miserable on a 1 hour tour we took. The teacher literally looked down her nose and said our son wasn't a fit for her school. I was actually fine with that. It was quite obvious he wasn't! He went to a play based/social preschool which was SO much better for him. He hasn't been scarred in the least acadmically.

I think going into that process, you really have to know it's not a reflection on your child or parenting at all if they don't get in! I do know it hard to keep perspective and stay objective! I have gotten somewhat better at it in the past year. And supportive communities like this one help a lot. .

Ditto what kimck, questions and Lorel said--I've never seen competitiveness here. If anything, I've seen moms finding an outlet to *complain* about how hard these kids are, not bragging and certainly no one wishing they were smarter (and thus harder)! Most of the sharing I've seen has been for the purpose of helping another parents or making someone feel better about their own kids, never worse! Any "bragging" has been of the celebratory type, the "share the joy" variety, which we all like.

As for anyone on the forum saying that HSing is "best," I don't think that's happened. I certainly wouldn't ever say that. There is no one-size-fits-all solution.

HSing is a valid educational option for HG+ kids--one of many!--and since it's the one that's most unfamiliar to people, we tend to spend a good bit of time explaining about it when people ask. That's only natural.

However, when people ask about it, we try to present the pros and cons. There are a lot of pros, for sure! But there are also some cons. I always mention that I'm finding that as I am an introvert, I need more alone time than I'm getting right now. I have also mentioned some minor problems with my son not wanting to do his math, and if you're both mom and teacher, that sort of mild rebellion is an issue you must deal with. So I *know* I've shown some cons as well as pros.

The truth is, though, there aren't a whole lot of cons to HSing, at least not in my experience, and I'd say Lorel and others would say the same, especially when weighed against the pros and cons of our respective former bricks-and-mortar schools. That doesn't mean HSing is "best" for everyone. It isn't, I'm sure! But in some cases, it is a better option than traditional school settings. Each parent has to weigh the options and decide what fits that family's situation.

I know many extroverts who are having a glorious time with HSing. They just do a lot more out-of-the-house activities and have a lot more playdates than my semi-introverted child and I (very introverted!) have.

What would be hardest, I would think, would be to have a highly extroverted child and a highly introverted parent/teacher. That would be a very difficult situation, and I don't think I'd recommend HSing to that person, at least not unless the parent could regularly drop her child off for activities and/or had lots of help with childcare.



What is your need, exactly? Objectivity? I'm not sure I understand. I'd be happy to try to help, but I'm not sure I know what exactly you're asking.

Hmmm...I don't think I've seen a single thing that you've posted that seemed competitive, Dottie. You like numbers, but that's not the same thing as competing. That's more like information-gathering. If anything, I'd say you *downplay* the strengths of your kids. (I can say that as someone who has suffered GT denial and therefore can see it in others! ) Certainly you don't talk about how great your kids are and judge the kids of others to be "less worthy" or something. That's not you at all.

I'd also say that no one here rejoices when someone's child doesn't get into DYS. We mourn, because we know the parent wouldn't have filled out the lengthy application if that child didn't need the help and support just as much as our own child does. There are a couple of people I'm still hoping will retest and reapply later because I'm sure their kids are qualified! That's teamwork, supportiveness, not competition.

I guess I look down on hothousing. But I dislike hothousing precisely because it's all about parent-driven competition rather than about letting the child be him/herself.

<shrug>

Either way, I don't think you're into competitive parenting, Dottie. I just don't see it.

OK, I agree there is a great deal of support, but I still stand by "part competitive" and I think that is natural. Because we have had to suppress it dealing with parents of MG or ND kids.

And, as I am entitled to my opinion, you will of course be all supportive of that right?

Ren