Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Achievement versus IQ

I have a question about achievement versus IQ. In particular, my 6th-grade son has high achievement levels but tests with a relatively low IQ.

On entering fourth grade at a new school in Kentucky, my son scored a 122 on the Kaufman 30-minute test and about a 112 on the Naglieri. This was not enough for a gifted placement. He was later tested with the Wechsler at our request and score a 119, with a 126 General Ability Index. This still was not enough for a gifted placement, but his verbal index was above 140 and this was enough to have him placed in the gifted program. His processing speed was in the 33 percentile, and I suspect that he worked slowly because he knew he had "failed" the earlier tests.

Now for performance. He makes all A's but does not study other than to do homework. In fifth grade he took the Orleans-Hanna algebra readiness test and had a score of 92 (actual test score 88, but class grades bring this up or down). When given in 7th grade, a score of 75 or 77 indicates algebra readiness. His gifted teacher told me his was the highest score of all the students taking the test. In 2nd through 4th grade at Catholic school, his Terra Nova score was consistently 99th percentile, although not all his subtests were that high.

His former school used MAP testing, and his end-year MAP scores for 5th grade were Language 238, Math 243 and Reading 238. Based on 2008 norms, these scores reflect 99th, 99th and 95th percentile respectfully. His language score actually puts him in the 99 percentile for sixth graders and the 86th percentile for 11th graders.

The icing on the cake is that I recently went to his old school to get his Kentucky Commonwealth Accountability Test results. Both he and my daughter had "perfect" scores on their subject-area tests. He had the maximum possible 580 for each subject area (less for "on-demand writing"). I haven't been able to find any norm-referencing for these tests, but I have to assume this is highly unusual.

Now for the sad part. His new school doesn't recognize an out-of-state gifted assignment and so he had to be retested. A 120 IQ is required. This happened on my recommendation as well as that of one of his new teachers. His pre-screening Cognitive Abilities Test (Cog/At) placed him with a verbal score in the 81st percentile and a nonverbal score in the 86th percentile. This did not qualify him to take the full-scale IQ test, and we did not press the issue.

Now for my question: How is it that a child who scores relatively poorly on IQ tests is blowing out the top on every possible achievement test. How can a student score in the high-99th percentile in language on the MAP test and then rank in the 81st percentile verbal on the Cog/At test? It just doesn't make sense to me.

I have personally witnessed this child learn to read as a 4-K student and never have to be helped with a word more than once. I saw him teach himself to multiply single-digit numbers with two-digit numbers as a kindergartner. I saw him devour the Harry Potter series in the first two months of third grade (with unbelieveable comprehension). I don't know how to put a number to these anecdotal observations, I just know them to be fairly rare.

So what gives? Any advice? I really don't care about a "number," but I do worry he may not receive all the academic services he would get if he were labeled "gifted." He starts 7th grade next year, and students who remain in the gifted program lose their elective, so I'm not even sure the gifted label is all that important. It's just an irritant.

Thanks for slogging through all this. I'd love to hear any thoughts and advice board members might have.

In the case of some of my kids, they have a language processing issue that interferes with the testing, so their IQ scores generally, and VCI specifically, tend to be lower than their achievement scores, often by one or two or even three standard deviations.

It sounds like the situation for your son would be different, because his verbal score was high.

FWIW, my understanding is that the Cogat is worthless for any kid who is even remotely 2E or just has a slower processing speed.

I don't understand why WISC scores would not be acceptable, no matter who performed the testing. One option might be to take the WISC privately in your new state.

just my two cents

These parts may apply since it seems like there would be a large discrepancy with that 140+ verbal index:
http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=2455
and
This from Hoagies:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/tests_tell_us.htm
I would look at his IQ results more as an indicator of relative strengths and weaknesses. His relative strengths seem to be reflected in the high achievement and the relative weaknesses do not seem to have a significant impact on his achievement.

After checking with someone more knowledgeable about testing than me, I wanted to add this.
If the VCI is 140+ and GAI is 126, the PRI would be 106. That would give a 34 point discrepancy between VCI and PRI. That's much more than the 23 point discrepancy that makes the FSIQ and GAI both noninterpretable:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Zb...=0CBUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
My take on it is that your son is being denied gifted services based on his FSIQ and GAI even though they're both noninterpretable. I think you could make a strong case for your son to get gifted services based on the VCI and achievement results. If it were me, I would contact a tester who is experienced working with gifted children:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/psychologists.htm
Good luck!

Does your son receive or have an option to take accelerated classes one or two grades up?

Our kids were never officially identifies as gifted at their small Catholic school, but dd was grade skipped and ds was early entranced with additional math acceleration there. These accommodations were far more valuable to us than leaving them at chronological placement for eventual pullout with other officially gifted kids of varying levels, as they would have had at public school. We have always preferred a situation where our kids have someone to chase rather than the big fish in small pond scenario. In the case of our son, meant looking for a bigger pond.

By your son�s achievement on the Terra-Nova, it is evident at the very least, that he is well educated relative to others. Additionally, his grades indicate motivation and success. These factors should qualify him for subject acceleration at a school that puts education first. As he leaves grade school, his grades and standardized scores will determine placement for advanced courses (possibly grade accelerated advanced classes). This, in turn, will better assure continued interest, effort and strong education.

In my opinion (based on my family�s experience), with the strongest possible education pursued now, your son will eventually end up with some equally or more highly gifted (and academically able) peers by high school or college.

He sounds Algebra ready and will most likely be allowed to be in the class. If he continues to keep up, he will probably be fine. His work ethic will help because that show maturity. Many students are not mature enough to handle a "high school" class middle school so that is important also.

Thanks for your comments. Just to update on a couple of things: His school says they do not allow for outside testing. The test must be done by the school psychomotrist. That doesn't mean we can't appeal the Cog/At screen, though.

At his former school he was going to be in a full-stop algebra class for sixth-graders only. This is new, and this last year they split the class mid-year into algebra and pre-algebra, as some kids couldn't keep up. I think this is a great way to handle this type of acceleration. In his current school he's in pre-algebra, and it's requiring some work and thought, so I'm happy.

I guess I need to sit down with the counselor and see what, if anything, he is missing out on by not being labeled "gifted."

p.s. Yesterday, my son told me he took a STAR reading assessment and that he was told his score was the highest in the school. I'm thrilled for him, but the whole IQ score thing is annoying.