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    #8919 - 02/15/08 10:35 AM draw-a-person test and intelligence
    Isa Offline

    Registered: 11/28/07
    Posts: 347
    I was wondering...

    apparently you can have a rough estimate of the mental age of a child by looking at what s/he draws as a person.

    So according to that, a child who is chronologically 4-5 years old but mentally much older, 7+ should made quite elaborate and acurate drawings of persons (appart the actual 'execution' which is related to fine motor skills which are more dependent on chrono-age).

    So, what is your experince there? Are the drawings of your kids advanced for their age?

    #8925 - 02/15/08 11:47 AM Re: draw-a-person test and intelligence [Re: gratified3]
    kimck Offline

    Registered: 09/20/07
    Posts: 1134
    Hmmm ... I don't know!? I'm a bit skeptical. My DS7 is still terrible at drawing. Although he actually tries occassionally now. I'd say he's average for a 1st grade boy. I think a child can be gifted in that arena, but I'm not sure I believe it is indicative of overall GT-ness, if you know what I mean?

    DD3.5 however has great small motor skills and draws really well for her age. She can also copy letters and numbers to some degree. I'm sure DS was not doing that at this age? I don't know yet about her whole GT-ness!

    #8926 - 02/15/08 11:50 AM Re: draw-a-person test and intelligence [Re: gratified3]
    Lorel Offline

    Registered: 08/22/07
    Posts: 970
    Loc: New England
    My sons both have fine motor issues that affected their drawing ability. In his preteen years though, my older son started drawing anime style and got pretty good. My younger son took a Mona Brooks art class when he was five and six, and he drew some really advanced looking stuff. His interest waned though, and he hasn't really gone back to it.

    My dd 7 has won awards for her artwork and she draws just about every day. I have pictures of horses and princesses all over my house! She shocked me by drawing a person's face with eyelashes, pupils, and eyebrows at 22 months. She has an eye for detail that is amazing- she adds rings, bracelets, distinctive cuffs and ruffles, necklines... I am really curious to see what she'll be doing in a few more years.

    My youngest is reluctant to draw, though she can do well when she does draw. I think she sees her sister's work and knows she can't compete, and so she just doesn't try.

    I do think that the details and not necessarily the execution say something about the intelligence of the artist.

    #8933 - 02/15/08 12:28 PM Re: draw-a-person test and intelligence [Re: Lorel]
    Isa Offline

    Registered: 11/28/07
    Posts: 347
    Originally Posted By: Lorel

    I do think that the details and not necessarily the execution say something about the intelligence of the artist.

    The drawings of DD are still quite clumsy, but she puts a lot of details, like hair in pony-tails, hats, hand-bags or backpacks, necklaces and bracelets, etc.
    She as well gives their figures motion, they are never static, which I find quite unsual for this age.

    The funny thing is, a few months ago she was still 'scribling'. She has never done the typical static and geometric figures that many kids do.

    In the intelligence test you have to look at the number of details that are correct, like having arms and legs, or the torso being longer than wider, etc but not at the quality. At least this is what I understood from what I have been reading.

    #8935 - 02/15/08 12:58 PM Re: draw-a-person test and intelligence [Re: Isa]
    LMom Offline

    Registered: 12/14/07
    Posts: 902
    This would so not work here. My DYS son's drawing were quite simple and at the age of 4 he forgot to draw arms more often than not. I would say that now at the age of 5 he draws like an average K kid.

    #8958 - 02/15/08 11:09 PM Re: draw-a-person test and intelligence [Re: LMom]
    Isa Offline

    Registered: 11/28/07
    Posts: 347
    I guess this could be one of those 'trait list items' whose presence indicates possible GTness but whose absence does not rule it out.

    #8967 - 02/16/08 05:15 AM Re: draw-a-person test and intelligence [Re: Isa]
    Lorel Offline

    Registered: 08/22/07
    Posts: 970
    Loc: New England
    Ok, I have pulled out my Ellen Winner book, which has quite a bit of information on artistic giftedness. Her finding is that the Draw-A-Person test correlates only weakly with intellectual giftedness. She has a fascinating case study of a boy who at age 5 was rated as drawing as well as a 14 year old. He did not have a similar aptitude for reading or math.

    So, Isa is right. Like many other traits, this one is a possible sign of giftedness, but not an outright indicator.

    #9041 - 02/17/08 07:29 AM Re: draw-a-person test and intelligence [Re: Lorel]
    Ann Offline

    Registered: 02/15/08
    Posts: 179
    Loc: painting the dining room
    DS2ís teacher said that he likes watching other people paint/draw, but doesnít like to do it himself. She also said that compared to other kidís artwork, my sonís has the most amount of negative space. If I encourage DS2 to color, heíll quickly scribble something. Heíd rather talk about the different colors or ask me to write something for him (e.g. I love Grandma.). DS2 also likes to quickly name objects as his dad draws a crude sketch. He seems to have no patience for art, but if you give him a train set heíll be engrossed for hours.

    #9048 - 02/17/08 08:24 AM Re: draw-a-person test and intelligence [Re: Ann]
    Lori H. Offline

    Registered: 05/26/07
    Posts: 982
    My adult daughter could draw very well as a child and started reading at 4. I kept a few things she drew at various ages and she could definitely draw better then my son, who has motor dyspraxia and mild hypotonia. I have an uncle that could draw well enough that he got paid for it and I suspect that he was gifted, both artistically and verbally, but he is in his 60's and he was never tested. Like my highly gifted stepson, he seemed very, very smart but he lacks common sense.

    My son couldn't draw but started reading at 2 1/2 without being taught, even though his eyes would tire and lose focus much faster than other kids without his disability. If IQ is determined partly by physical skills, then maybe my son's IQ would not be as high as my daughter's, yet she recently got upset with her 9 year old half brother because he was using words and talking about things that made her feel stupid. He asked her if she would like for him to dumb down his conversation and she told him yes and that he better watch how he talks around other people--even adults. He has learned that he can't be himself unless he is with his "geeky" friends.

    Yesterday, he apologised and said he knew he was a nerd as he stopped to look up the definition of a word when we were reading.

    He comes up with really interesting metaphors in his speech, but he is learning to hide this around other people now.

    I don't think I will ever have my son's IQ tested. I just am really confused about what IQ really means anyway. My stepson, who tested highly gifted is in his 30's and content to work at a minimum wage job and lives alone because he doesn't want to deal with the "office politics" that he had to deal with in the higher paying jobs he had in the past.

    #9083 - 02/17/08 04:34 PM Re: draw-a-person test and intelligence [Re: Isa]
    kickball Offline

    Registered: 02/17/08
    Posts: 258
    see Hall and Skinner in the appendix of your gifted child... as someone noted... it isn't the quality but the details. to steal from the book:

    draws person with 2 parts - average is 48m (33.6m is 30% more advanced)

    draws person with neck, hands, clothes - average is 72m (50.4 - considered 30% more advanced).

    .. see book for more...

    Also see Gifted Children by Ellen Winner - more on Art.

    I don't know if any of this is valid but it is published.


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