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Ok - my family thinks I have completely lost it, I'm laughing so much reading this thread. Thanks!

Incog-

Thanks for that deletion. My main concern was that someone would follow my name here on a google search and see that! That might be a bit awkward, to say the least!

Well, it's not like they'd see the drawing...

<smirk>

DS5 has been reading (self-taught) since 2.5 , tests in the EG rage, and can't draw a figure to save his life. He doesn't write very legibly either.

I have enjoyed reading this thread!

My entirely non-expert opinion -
I think artistic expression should be considered as a great window into various factors that we list when we talk about intelligence and giftedness.
At a very young age -
Level of detail - surely speaks volumes about memory, and as has been noted here, may even be an indicator of understanding of human culture and interaction!
Drive to create - how often does the child draw, sing, etc., with what level of focus - a great guage of overall intensity and ability to focus - even though other subjects may make them act out and seem incapable of focusing (personal experience on that one!)

For somewhat older children I have seen more specific artistic milestones listed on a website or two which I think are of interest. (recalling from memory here) Use of skills such as foreshortening, attempting to render 3-dimensionality of an object, composing with use of foreground, background (mid-ground). Shading, etc. I think I have read that these can be good indicators of visual spatial ability, and more of the above traits, since level of detail & focus are increased.

If you are seeing amazing things artistically from your child and have not considered intellectual giftedness - it may be time to rethink. Also, I know I have said this before, when we were applying to the gt proram at school for my ds, bringing in drawings really helped flesh out what he was capable of and what is going on in his head.

I haven't read all the posts..... but actually I am an expert in this area!

While this may come as a shock, art is a very academic subject and can be taught. Just like any subject in school, there are kids who are gifted and kids who are regular and kids that lag. Gifted kids in art may not be gifted in other areas, or they maybe, there is no real relationship. For some people who have issues with verbal communication it can offer an outlet. Which can become finely honed. Image a person who can't see, maybe there hearing gets better..... A person who can't write or speak, may learn to draw better because it's all they got! This is why a lot of people who have "learning disablities" end up in the art field.

In most of my Art education classes, I was asked to read Howard Gardeners 7 different intelligences. (I was never asked to read this in any other education class I took)

so...........Yes! You can sometimes tell which kids are somewhat ahead by there drawings, as long as they are basically normal nerualogically speaking. This is taught in Art Education classes. And after you see a few 100 pictures for each age group, you will pick up on patterns.... Now of course you must recognize that most of the kids that are gifted, are not what is considered nerulaogically adverage. That's why they can read at 2. So, because of this gifted kids are sometimes exceptions!

I once taught art to a 7th grade class of kids. There was a boy who was doing college algraba and high school science..... he drew like a 4 year old. It was partly fine motor, and partly he just wasn't really able to think in pictures. He reported he thought in numbers and in words. As an art form he was gifted in music. He took the art class for a girl he liked.... I gave him an A because while his work was pathetic, he worked very hard on it and did show improvement. He was very mature and a great kid!

Sorry this is so long, but because my knowledge is in such a nitch area, i don't often get to espouse on it. Wow! It feels good!

and just cause I have to show off!

here is a link to howard......He's so dreamy!

http://www.infed.org/thinkers/gardner.htm

Interesting. But what about comedic intelligence. Would that fall under linguistic intelligence? Several people, adults and children, have told my son that he should be a comedian. A gifted friend who is my son's age said this a few days ago when we had dinner with him and his mother. But I have known quite a few people who seemed linguistically gifted but lacked the ability that my son has to make up jokes to fit any situation, even very difficult situations. When bad stuff happens, like when my mother couldn't remember my name for the first time even though we visit every day, he verbally pretends to be writing a combination soap opera/sitcom/parody of our life that he calls "Unhappy Days." I can be close to tears because of things that are very sad and depressing before he tells me the latest episode of Unhappy Days, but then I laugh so hard that I cry anyway. The more depressed I am, the funnier he gets.

He jokes about his mild disability. Instead of finding it irritating when someone pointed us to the special needs dressing room at the YMCA a few years ago because they saw him in homeschool PE, he can joke about it. When he is sitting down and people hear him talking, they think he is really smart and make comments about it, but when he tries to do physical things he somehow loses IQ points in the minds of some people.

My son knows about multiple intelligences. His dad, who works for a university, is in charge of training for his office, so we got to listen in on a training conference where they discussed using different teaching methods because of different learning styles and different intelligences. My son whispered "We already know this--are they just now learning it?"

Some teachers in our small town public school act like they still don't know anything about different intelligences and I don't think they really understand how a child can be twice exceptional.

My son's friend asked him again why he doesn't go back to public school and my son made up a funny story about his difficulty with getting up early in the morning. He finds this easier than telling him the real reason.

I have thought about asking my artist uncle to give my son drawing lessons so that he could possibly advance from being several years behind in drawing ability to maybe one year behind in drawing ability, but he chooses to work on skills that he has a reasonable chance of doing well. He admires the artistic work of others and he likes to learn about their work, but he says he doesn't want to be take drawing lessons when he doesn't have the natural ability in this area. I think he is self conscious about his drawing ability and he will only draw stick figures for people. I think his uncle would be a good teacher since he is family. And he keeps trying to talk me into buying him something called Flash because he is interested in doing animation and games and I think he needs to be able to draw for this.

well... actually no, you can get away with not being able to draw and use flash.

You do have to think visually and you do have to have a basic intuive sense of computers, also you really really really really need how to manual and you should find some forums to ask questions about how to do stuff....

Also a basic working knowledge of a creation program, such as photoshop or painter. but you can do it with out those as long as you have a program to make things in.

Flash is not simple, but it's fun. you can do some really really great stuff with it! (I am still learning it.... and it makes me say many words that you can't say on tv!)

Interesting!

DD5 (almost) drew very elaborate people with distinct bodies, (i.e. not just a head with limbs sticking out), often 5 or more facial features, things like belly buttons, nipples, knee caps, elbows and ankles, etc.

She also drew with perspective. Things that were far away were smaller, closer larger. Looking at a person from above she would draw a circle for the head with two feet sticking out.

Her art work was getting pretty elaborate. I have some dated around 18 months when she was drawing letters and shapes pretty accurately and labeling them before she drew them. So not just lucking out that a scribble looked like something and then labeling it, but actually planning to draw something. And then what she drew increased in elaboration and skill as she got older, as I wrote above.

She started preschool at age 3 years and attended for about 1.5 semesters. During that time, she went from what I described previously to scribbling randomly - a far departure from what she had been doing. She then went through the stage of "blob" drawing with the facial features *mostly* floating in space and not drawn in the face, and is now *finally* starting to make people with more characteristics. Although, now her drawings are quite a bit more accurate. Then again, she now draws things she didn't tackle before - e.g Plankton, Patrick Star and SpongeBob.

I always wondered if this regression was significant. Does anyone know?

I thought it had to do with the fact that the majority of the children in her preschool class were still in the "blob" phase. Her teacher told me that the other kids' abilities had nothing to do with DD's change, because there was one boy in DD's morning class who drew very well for his age. He was 6 months older than DD and went 2 morning a week whereas she went 4 full days. So, I'm not sure I buy what the teacher said. This regression happened with most all of her skills and "Kids my age don't know how to do that!" became one of her favorite mantras. She also changed her speech, paragrahs with correct grammar became short sentences and her pronouns became confused.

She's starting to be more like she was before preschool. Still have some of the "Kids my age..." stuff going on, but there has been a definite improvement since we starting homeschooling (mostly unschool style).

Back to the OP: Yes my DD's drawing was very advanced for her age. (At least I think it was, I don't have a drawing benchmark list to refer to. Is there one in this thread? I haven't read through it, yet.) But then she went backward and is now pretty much where she is supposed to be - from what my friends have mentioned where their kids were at her age, anyway.