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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 480
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But if the extra time is not instructional, I want the option of choosing how it's spent. You could work 9-5, you could work nights, you could have a nanny, you could take off from work early on a Monday to take your child to piano lessons. If they're doing the group sport at 1pm and math at 5:30 I don't have that option.
I don't see why the school day needs to be extended to incorporate lots of outside running around time. That's how my school was as a child and we all learned what we needed to in the instructional time. In a six and a half hour day we had an hour and a half of outside free play, and no homework.
Last edited by Tallulah; 10/27/10 03:01 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2008
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But if the extra time is not instructional, I want the option of choosing how it's spent. Fine, you want that option, so don't send your child to a school like the one my DS goes to. But what you said, in the post that (I hope accidentally) implied that I must be either offering my son a bad home environment or making a bad choice of school for him, was As for a longer school day, the only time that is good is when there's a bad home environment. You could work 9-5, you could work nights, you could have a nanny, you could take off from work early on a Monday to take your child to piano lessons. If they're doing the group sport at 1pm and math at 5:30 I don't have that option. Are we talking about you or me? You don't know which of those options I have, actually. And as it happens my son has perfectly good piano lessons in school.
Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Oh, if this is some private set up, and you are a working parent...more power to you. I thought you were proposing a mandatory school schedule for the masses. I don't think I've said anything that could reasonably be construed as such a proposal - perhaps you're confusing me with another poster.
Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail
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Joined: Feb 2009
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As a teacher and a mom I have pretty strong thoughts about this whole issue. I will try to summarize them briefly. I don't think that extending the school year is what is needed, but rather moving the schedule around so that we had a week's break after each 9 weeks of school to allow everyone (kids and teachers) a breather. (This is especially needed if you are teaching higher level indepth courses.) And then a month at Christmas and around a month for summer. This would eliminate the need for extended review, but would allow the much needed breaks for all involved. If you are not in the classroom with kids all day everyday (whether it be 18 elementary kids all day long or 150 middle/high schoolers in various classes cycling through) dealing with not only their academic needs, but their social and developmental needs, as well as dealing with their parents/guardians/family members/parole officers/students' kids etc. trying to actually teach the kids what they need - not just to pass some state mandated test, but to have them actually learn something you have no idea how utterly exhausting it is. The idea of adding on hours to a school day, or more days to the year makes me shake my head and want to resign now.  At the moment it is the end of the first marking term - we are all tired and need a break, but we don't get one until November - Thanksgiving weekend. We will muster through, because we have no choice, but PLEASE keep in mind that as a teacher (if your good and care) you are often taking home 3-4 hours of work EVERY NIGHT! of marking or planning or report writing because 1 50 minute period a day is not enough time to even think straight, forget about doing all the stuff you need to. I have almost 20 years teaching experience, and I know what I am doing and I still do close to 3 hours of work a night just to stay a day ahead of requirements. Not to mention of course that with a master's degree in physics and all of these years experience, I do all of this for less than $50,000 a year.  So, while I understand the need in our society for parents to have a place for their kids to be while they work, and I know our country's education is not where it should be right now, rather than simply extending the school year give us power back in the classroom to teach the kids in ways that we know will be beneficial to our students, rather than requiring us to spend all of our time prepping them for tests. As far as our specific population of kids - I would not want my DD to spend any more time in school than she does now. She needs free play time at home with the family, or at the beach or on vacation. I agree with other posters that in this country the idea of extra time during the day to allow for a longer lunch and PE everyday sounds great, it would probably be the first thing to be cut and they'd end up in more test prep classes rather than getting what they need.
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Dottie, I too blended most of the posts together. I am a strong believer in free unstructured time. I think all kids need it, but this is especially true for elementary age kids. I have nothing against high school kids spending a substantial amount of their time at school, but I strongly disagree with any system that would require young children spending 9 to 10 hours at school. It's up to the parent to decide where and how the children spend the time outside of school. The kid has to be *somewhere* during those hours. Two years ago, my neighbor's 6yo and 8yo were unsupervised in their house for an hour before school and two hours after school, because their single parent worked 8 hour days. That's what before and after school care does. Exactly. I would go as far as saying that unstructured time in the after school care may be a great choice for many children. I highly suggest looking at the number of hours kids spend at school in Europe (significantly less than here) I dunno - I remember Saturday school from my year in Germany as an exchange student. Along with tracking that started in the 4th grade, so if you weren't identified as a high performer then, you had no ability to get into college (or even trade school, in some cases). Taiwanese schools go long hours / long year / lots of homework, and get higher scores than we do. Colin'sMum's in the UK, and her day looks a lot like I suggested. I grew up in a system with significantly fewer school hours in elementary school. Last I heard elementary age children in Germany have shorter days than children in US. I don't have enough time to search for more data, but here is a paper from the Council of Europe Family Policy Database. It shows the amount of time elementary aged children spend at school at different European countries. Admittedly some of the countries have long days, but many of them have short days (such as 8-12). There is no data listed for quite a few of the countries, but I know for sure that at least a few of them have schedules similar to the 8-12 mentioned above. Some schools are open longer to provide after school care, but the academic lessons are a few hours per day. http://www.coe.int/t/dg3/familypolicy/Source/3_4_2%20Timetables%20primary%20schools.pdfEstonia
The highest permitted weekly study load of students in the basic school classes is:
1) 20 lessons in year 1;
2) 23 lessons in year 2;
3) 25 lessons in years 3 and 4
The length of lesson is 45 minutes. The length of break can not be shorter than 10 minutes. The number of lessons and the order
Hungary
School time from 8 a.m./7. 15. p.m. to 7. p.m.
Academic lesson from 8 a.m. / 7:15. a.m. to 12. p.m. generally
School time can only begin at 7.15. a.m. if the student�s government and the parental-teacher gave contribution.
Italy
In general, children stay at school from 8:30 am to 4:30 pm, but, if their parents choose a different timetable, they can leave school
at 1:30 pm.
Netherlands
1. Children who are 4-8 years of age tend to have fewer classes than children aged 8 -12. For instance, they may not only have the
Wednesday afternoon off but also the Friday afternoon, or they have a longer lunch break (finishing at 11.30 or starting at 13.45).
....
LMom
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Joined: Jul 2010
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My kids' school goes from 8:30 to 5:00. I agree it is a long day. But....they have an hour of PE every day. They have one hour and fifteen minutes for lunch every day, plus two other breaks throughout the day. They have art, music/music theory and foreign language every day. The long day does allow a lot more time for things other than just the regular core classes. And the working parents like it. Meanwhile, DS's school runs 7 hours and all grades except K get a whopping 20 minute recess + 20 minute lunch, unless those are both 15 minutes now. Extras (PE, art, music) on a weekly basis only. I hear it's even worse in some city schools, with recess eliminated entirely. I do think more running around time is needed, and less sitting indoors. I don't think one should have to go to a private school for the exercise! And yet all you hear about these days is how they need to spend more and more time at their desks. IMO it's the time in between spurts of study that let the concepts sink in. Not to mention how they can possibly handle these kids who have been sitting still and quiet for hours.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 480
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But if the extra time is not instructional, I want the option of choosing how it's spent. Fine, you want that option, so don't send your child to a school like the one my DS goes to. But what you said, in the post that (I hope accidentally) implied that I must be either offering my son a bad home environment or making a bad choice of school for him, was As for a longer school day, the only time that is good is when there's a bad home environment. You could work 9-5, you could work nights, you could have a nanny, you could take off from work early on a Monday to take your child to piano lessons. If they're doing the group sport at 1pm and math at 5:30 I don't have that option. Are we talking about you or me? You don't know which of those options I have, actually. And as it happens my son has perfectly good piano lessons in school. I'm saying in general, the different ways people's lives are arranged and the things they choose for their kids to do before/after school. I wasn't referring to you, but to the studies that are cited here (in the media in the US) continually, saying that longer school hours= better results. It's one of the things that charter schools like to push. And the reason for the effect is that if a child goes home to a poor home environment vs staying at school to do homework of course there's a difference in test scores. I don't think your son or mine, as the child of middle class intellectually curious people, would see any change in test scores if they spent five extra hours a day at school.
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Okay, out of curiosity so I can compare to here. What is the break up of the school year, how many terms and how many weeks holiday?
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Joined: Feb 2009
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At DD7's school they have 4 9 week terms. During the first term (which started Aug 23rd) the students have 2 days off and the teachers have 1. During the 2nd term we have more time off: 3 individual days for holidays, then 2 days for Thanksgiving at the end of November and 10 school days for Christmas. (Teachers have 2 less days off). 3rd term has 2 student days off, 1 teacher day off. 4th term has 2 individual days off plus a week for spring break at the end of March, teacher get one less day off.
So in total the year is 180 days for students, plus 11 work days for teachers without students.
The last day of school for the students is June 7th and the kids are off until the end of August.
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Okay, out of curiosity so I can compare to here. What is the break up of the school year, how many terms and how many weeks holiday? Summer is around 2 1/2 - 3 months long. School starts at the beginning of September. Days off are as likely to be midweek as adjacent to a weekend. Terms are not tied to vacations, there are four terms which finish randomly through the year. Week 9 one day off, week 11 one day off week 12 two days off (thanksgiving four day weekend) week 17 the whole week is off (christmas) week 20 one day off week 22 one day off week 25 one day off week 31 the whole week is off (spring break) week 34 one day off week 39 one day off week 40 one day off week 41 last week of school See why year round school would be an improvement?
Last edited by Tallulah; 10/28/10 05:20 PM.
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