Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional ADD assessment

Cricket, if I'm not mistaken, I don't think mich was telling you to NOT go the private route. But if you want the school to actually do something to help your DD, they *have* to (by law) do their own eval.

Now, their eval can be made to include information from your outside eval (if you hand over your privately acquired information and/or bring your experts to their meeting). But without their doing an eval, no services or accommodations are likely to be forthcoming. Especially not in a case like your DD's where she is not obviously failing.

Often it's advantageous to do both a private eval and the school eval concurrently. Since the school has 60 school days to get theirs done, it takes quite a while, by which time you'd likely have your outside results ready to deploy. If you wait until you have outside results to approach the school, you've likely lost any chance of getting help from the school during this school year, just because of the time it takes.

Best,
DeeDee

I was hoping that my prior response wasn't going to come across harshly and I'm sorry if I failed at that. We've actually had the schools implement things based solely on private evals. Dd12 had a 504 plan based on a private OT eval. No school evals were ever done.

I'll see what we come away with from the private eval and then see where we get with the school. I'm not sure what would be recommended for the school to do in the case of ADD anyway. Of course, that's not one we've dealt with with dd12, so I don't know. For her it was SPD and they implemented preferential seating away from noisy items and leaving the room for testing so she could test in a quieter environment without the distractions of the other students.

HI Cricket -
I actually think that private evaluations yield better diagnostic information and more compelling and complete evaluations. But as Dee Dee mentions, if you want any help from the school, they must do their own evaluation. So, to get the process started, it is often more timely to let the school give it a stab first. Plus, the district only needs to "consider" your private evaluation. This can mean anything from reading it, to burning it, to implementing parts or all of it! Of course, if the school evaluates first, they often have access to some of the "better" tests and this may limit the tests that the private evaluator can use since most tests can be given no more frequently than every 12 months. All in all, going private has some real advantages!

I did not feel that your response was harsh - no worries on this end! It's important to understand the pros and cons of various options. It sounds like getting a more complete diagnosis/understanding of your childs needs is more important than quickly getting services going in the school. I understand your reasoning!

I hope that you are able to gain important insight and direction from the evaluation - this is an important first step!

So, I spoke with the parent liason in the special ed office and here's what she told me:

* dd would not qualify for an IEP regardless of the dx b/c an IEP requires them to show significant educational impact which their office defines as a child performing below grade level. Even if it is a significant impact in that it is making it such that she isn't performing close to her own ability, she is too able to have an IEP b/c she is compensating well enough to never fall below grade level.

* dd could qualify for a 504. This does not require any testing from the school and, in fact, normally does not include any testing done by the school.

Essentially, what I was getting was that dd is too intelligent to have an IEP regardless of how significantly ADD (or whatever) is impacting her education. Thus, 2e kids don't get special ed services unless their disability is so huge that they perform below grade level. I'd gather from that that HG+ don't get IEPs.

I don't know that I need her to have an IEP. A 504 might be fine. I'm going to play it by ear for now and see what the private psych says before we decide what to do.

That doesn't correspond at all to my understanding of what is mandated by law. They are required to give each child an "appropriate" education; if her disability is hampering her learning, they are required to address it, no matter what level she is working at.

We were given this run-around by our district at one point, too, argued the point, and eventually received appropriate services for him. You might choose to do some reading on Wrightslaw.com about your DD's rights if you want to know more.


Whether this is appropriate depends on what your outside tester finds. A 504 will not include any direct services to remediate deficits, but it can include accommodations (more time on tests, changes in how instruction is delivered). If they find your DD needs specific kinds of training to improve her capacity to attend, that won't be covered in a 504.


Again, this is not an appropriate or legally correct position. Districts sometimes use this criterion to make less-informed parents simply go away and stop asking for services.

If your outside advisers name services that can improve your DD's educational experience in school, know that you don't have to accept the "grade level" argument, because it won't stand up to challenge.

DeeDee

Cricket, we were given the same interpretation of RTI for our kid. The school said that they would not qualify her for an IEP because she is at or above grade level in everything. They were willing to give her a 504 to allow her more time on tests (it was in their interest that she not totally bomb her CSAPs). When we presented our outside testing showing a large gap between achievement and IQ scores, they said that the achievement gap model is no longer recognized. I've reviewed the CDE's website and it seems to support this interpretation. Their interpretation of RTI only says that gifted kids who are high achievers need to be given more and kids who are failing need to be given more. If your kid tests as average, they don't seem to have to do anything. I haven't done any further research. I know other folks in CO who are getting the same story.

I was going to say that I was glad it wasn't just me, but I think that it would be better to say sorry that it isn't just me getting that story! I'll do some more research into it although I don't yet know that an IEP is what she needs.

We had our first meeting with the psych yesterday. She'd like to meet with dd for a few sessions before going further in deciding what is going on. She said that anxiety could look a lot like ADD and she wants to spend some time flushing that out before we try to ascertain if it is ADD.

We do, again, have behavior rating scales to fill out, though. I'm contemplating whether I want to have dd's GT teacher fill one out as well. She gave me the option of doing so or just filling them out myself.

She also mentioned considering redoing the IQ at some point although she hadn't initially thought that was necessary. Her thought was that the initial IQ done when she was 7.5 was likely more accurate b/c it was something called the WISC "integrated" which allowed them to look at scores both with and without the impact of timed parts. She thinks that processing speed may be creating an issue for dd. (PSI was low both times.) She also said that the psych who oversaw the doctoral student who tested dd that time is the head of the psych dept and very good and she doubts that he would have messed up. (He observed the testing and reviewed scoring.)

Her comment was that "typical gifted kids" get 15s and 16s on the WISC whereas dd had two 18s on VCI the first time and a 17 and a 19 the second (as well as a 18 on PRI and other high PRI scores the first time). She felt that it was possible, if she repeated her performance of the first test, or even the second with a slightly higher comp to go with the 19 & 17, she might qualify for some services for more HG kids outside of school.

We're holding off on redoing IQ partly b/c we have other things we need to spend $ on (car brakes, etc.) but also b/c I want to flush out what else is going on first.

I'll keep you updated.

Incidentally, could you point me to the place on the CDE's site where you found that so I could start my research? Thanks!

Here is the state RTI guide. http://www.cde.state.co.us/RtI/downloads/PDF/RtIGuide.pdf
The movement away from the discrepancy model (IQ vs. WJII) is on p. 35.

I haven't read this in awhile. From what I remember, for lower performing kids, everything is based on closing the achievement gap between expected baseline on their assessments and actual achievement. For all kids they want to see demonstrated growth so RTI is supposed to help gifted kids by monitoring growth over time (i.e. growth model data on CSAPs). They want to see a year's growth in a year's time.

The problem for my 2e kid is that she tests as above grade level in math, slightly above grade level in reading and at-grade level for writing. Consequently, she doesn't meet their criteria for remedial intervention. As for the growth criteria, as long as she is showing progress based on their assessments, there is no requirement for intervention. So if they assess her as a 50th percentile kid in writing and she shows growth commensurate with a 50th percentile kid, no action. They never look at why a kid with verbal IQ of 130 and a FSIQ of 149 is only performing in the 50th percentile on writing.

I've been doing a little digging around and, while I can't find anything on the CDE's website specifically stating that 2e kids don't get IEPs unless they are below grade level, I did find an interesting legal opinion on learning disabilities online's website in relation to gifted kids:

"...the prevailing interpretation of Section 504 and the Americans with Disabilities Act is that a person must be impaired in a major life activity when compared not only to their own potential, or when compared to the group against whom they are being evaluated or competing against, but in relation to the average person in the population as a whole.

Based on this interpretation, it is not enough to demonstrate that an individual is functioning below their potential. In order to qualify as a person with a disability entitled to the protections of Section 504 or the ADA, including test accommodations, the individual would need to demonstrate that their disabilities cause them to function in the relevant area below that of the average person."

http://www.ldonline.org/legalbriefs/c682/#33

That's actually kind of scary in that my older dd had a 504 for time and quiet testing environment even though she has never functioned below the average person. We exited the 504 in 6th grade and wrote the same accommodations into her ALP, but that interpretation seems to call into question the accommodations she has as well as those a lot other kids here are getting!