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    Cricket2 #87418 10/16/10 07:50 AM
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    Thanks. Dh, like you, was not dx with ADHD as a child but we've had a counselor he saw as an adult tell us that he likely has it and he has classic symptoms. He is a very unhappy person who came out of school feeling like he was stupid. He still feels that way to this day.

    If you know, what type of tests did the psych run for your ds other than behavior scales? Dd doesn't appear to have an attention issue to people who don't know her. She is quite an actress and is involved with theatre. She plays whatever role she thinks will put her in the best light. She'd sit there and appear to read or focus on something for an hour if that's what she thought would look "normal" to the psych. Granted, her mind wouldn't be focused but one can't tell that from looking at her.

    I believe that she is quite bright and she's older so she can pull off the "typical" act well enough to fool most adults. She compensates like mad and saves the melt downs and obvious lack of focus for home where she asks for help and then cuts us off, cries, and interrupts herself and everyone else non-stop.

    She did see a child psych for a few visits about 1.5 yrs ago and the only odd thing she noticed was that she had dd playing some game where dd was taking an unusual and somewhat ineffective approach. She showed dd how to do it and dd just kept trying her ineffective way over and over refusing to give up until she could make it work. That, however, may just be a personality (stubornness) issue more than anything.

    Cricket2 #87603 10/19/10 11:22 AM
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    I spoke with the in-network psych yesterday. She felt that, based upon what I was telling her, dd likely does have inattentive type ADHD and that she would be able to dx her based upon the prior data we have and talking with me and dd. However, she also felt that she wouldn't be as helpful to dd in dealing with it as would another local neuropsych who runs this place: http://www.neuro-development.com/

    They, unfortunately, are out of network and our insurance won't pay for dd to see them. They said that it would be $135/session and approx 14 sessions to dx (6 for testing, 6 or 7 for writing up the treatment plan and dx and 1 for a parent meeting, I believe). Given that this works out to nearly $2K, I really don't think we can do that.

    I left a msg back for the in network psych to see if we could at least get dd in to see her to see if she thinks a dx is warranted. This would be free in-network. From there, I guess that we could get medication prescribed by her pediatrician with the psych's dx, but I gather that treatment entails more than putting the kid on medication.

    Thoughts?

    Cricket2 #87605 10/19/10 11:34 AM
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    I'd find out what specific tests the out of network person would do, and what their report typically includes.

    What does in-network person say that out-of-network person can give you that in-network person can't give you? Is there an expertise gap?

    $2k isn't out of line for an independent complete neuropsych workup, but I'd be tactical. If you don't need this report for treatment purposes (or school negotiations) moving forward, or if you can get what you need in network, why pay the premium?

    On the other hand, some of the top of the line people are great at negotiating with schools and very usefully specific in their recommendations-- some will even come to school meetings and negotiate for you. If you need something to change and you haven't been able to make it change in other ways, it could be worth the 2k to you. Really depends on what you plan to solve using this information.

    DeeDee


    Cricket2 #87607 10/19/10 11:59 AM
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    We just don't have that kind of $ without pulling it out of our home equity or dh's retirement savings right now.

    From what I gather, he would be better able to ascertain what, neurologically, is causing the issue rather than just giving it a diagnosis. He would write up a detailed report on how best to address those deficits in a school setting and otherwise, but I was told not to expect the schools to implement any of his suggestions based upon what had been seen in the past with kids like dd who aren't performing below grade level.

    The in network person would be able to give it a name and set us on the road to a prescription if we wanted. She can also provide counseling, but she isn't an expert in ADD. None of the in network providers they gave me are experts in ADD. The only local self-proclaimed experts are out of network. The specific one she recommended doesn't work with any insurance. He provides a bill that you can submit to your insurance and see if you can get reimbursed -- which would be a "no" in our instance.

    Cricket2 #87608 10/19/10 12:09 PM
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    Hello Cricket2...After much reluctance, we finally decided on 5mg adderall for DS10's inattentiveness. Its only been a few days, so I will let you know how it's working later smile So far so good. DS has all of the complexities of giftedness, so I waited (probably too long) not do the medication route. I still believe that a lot of his behavior DOES have something to do with his overexcitabilities, personality type, giftedness...We tried every natural alternative out there, read a zillion books... What finally made me decide to try medication was that we were at our wits end as a family and his grades were dropping- Not because he couldn't do the work, but because he would continually forget a pencil, notebook, workbook, forget to turn in assignments, forget to bring home assignments, etc...etc...Ugh, it was a mess. Our homelife started to become so chaotic because we were always bringing him back to school to get "whatever" ... To get through nightly homework, we started to focus so much of our time on DS. Our other children started to resent the situation, lots of tears...I was afraid if we didn't get his "executive functioning" skills under control, he would start to have serious underacheivement and self-esteem issues...And not get approval for subject acceleration. Going on medication is never an easy decision...So many unique situations with our unique kids! Good luck with everything smile

    Cricket2 #87614 10/19/10 12:43 PM
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    Originally Posted by Cricket2
    From what I gather, he would be better able to ascertain what, neurologically, is causing the issue rather than just giving it a diagnosis. He would write up a detailed report on how best to address those deficits in a school setting and otherwise, but I was told not to expect the schools to implement any of his suggestions based upon what had been seen in the past with kids like dd who aren't performing below grade level.
    Cricket2 - I can't see spenting 2K for this, probably because I don't believe that the science is really firmly able to grant this as yet. And because it's a rare school that will provide this sort of accomidation for anyone who isn't failing or creating some kind of havoc.

    There are tons of books on the market that list what the common difficulties that kids with ADD/ADHD tend to have. Browse around and see what appeals to you. Remember that you can only probably work on one stumbling block at a time anyway. Journaling to see what is bugging you the most is probably a good way to discover what the 'neurological weaknesses' are. I'd rather see 2K going to work with a good tutor or mentor who knows a lot about how gifted girls with ADD tend to slide though the system.

    There are some kids who seems to do really well with medication right away, or after a few tries. Other families jump on the 'medication merry-go-round' for quite some time before finding a pill that makes their kid feel and act 'better.' Then other kids just seem miserable from whatever medication they try.

    Meanwhile, non-medication approaches, such as strenghtening the overall EF of the family (flylady is one possible way), regular physical activity (trampoline and karate are favorites), sleep hygiene, healthy diet, super-parenting (such as 'Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook') or bio-feedback/heart-centered meditation (http://www.iamheart.org/ or http://store.heartmath.org/store.html)are usually needed even if the medication works well. Of course no one can do all these things at once!

    Best Wishes,
    Grinity


    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com
    Cricket2 #87627 10/19/10 04:38 PM
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    The T.O.V.A. is a computerized test, and it is often used with other assessments for a diagnosis.

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    Originally Posted by lightdance
    The T.O.V.A. is a computerized test, and it is often used with other assessments for a diagnosis.
    Someone else suggested that same test on another discussion board and then another person posted this: http://www.adhdtesting.org/tova.htm

    I'm not sure whether this computerized test or another computerized test would tell us anything or not crazy .


    Grinity #87652 10/20/10 05:44 AM
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    Originally Posted by Grinity
    Cricket2 - I can't see spenting 2K for this, probably because I don't believe that the science is really firmly able to grant this as yet.
    That's kind of what I was thinking after I posted that. Is it really work $2K for better recommendations on what is going on and how to treat it? We can certainly start with a dx, meds, and other techniques at home. I did pick up a book at a used book store the other day that had some good suggestions including cutting apart comic strips and having the child rearrange them into the right order to deal with logic issues (or seeing things in a more convergent way). I don't want to do away with her divergence b/c I think that it is a real asset in some areas, but it would be good if she could get an idea of what the "typical" person might see in a question.

    Quote
    bio-feedback/heart-centered meditation (http://www.iamheart.org/ or http://store.heartmath.org/store.html)
    eta: What would you suggest from these product lines? There seems to be a lot of stuff there. I was imagining the coherence coach CD maybe: http://store.heartmath.org/cd-roms/coherence-coach-cd .

    Last edited by Cricket2; 10/20/10 05:53 AM.
    Cricket2 #87653 10/20/10 06:10 AM
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    It sounds like there is more going on than just ADHD. I am thinking some executive functioning deficits that almost always accompany ADHD. Here are a couple of good resources:



    Executive Function...
    "What is this anyway?"
    Chris A. Zeigler Dendy, M.S.
    http://www.chrisdendy.com/executive.htm
    Parents and teachers are often baffled when students with attention deficits, including those who are intellectually gifted, teeter on the brink of school failure. Recently researchers may have solved part of this challenging puzzle; deficits in critical cognitive skills, known as executive function, may interfere with a student's ability to succeed in school. Practically speaking, executive function deficits may cause problems for students with ADD or ADHD in several important areas: getting started and finishing work, remembering homework, memorizing facts, writing essays or reports, working math problems, being on time, controlling emotions, completing long-term projects, and planning for the future.

    Executive function: A new lens for viewing your child
    This theory of how we mentally navigate life offers a new way to view a child's strengths and struggles.
    By Kristin Stanberry
    http://www.greatschools.org/special...-lens-to-view-your-child.gs?content=1017

    As each of us goes about daily life, numerous mental processes and skills help us plan for � and respond to � the tasks, challenges, and opportunities we face. Researchers and psychologists have coined the term executive function to describe this constellation of cognitive controls. The dynamics of executive function affect every one of us � young and old, as well as those with and without disabilities. It influences our performance at school, on the job, our emotional responses, personal relationships, and social skills. Yet executive function plays itself out a little differently in each of us; each individual is uniquely strong or competent in some cognitive control areas and weaker in others.


    Based on the the neurodevelopment web site you posted - it seems that they are promising to help in these areas. While outside assistance may be great, as you've found it is expensive. I suggest you pursue these issue through the school first. In theory, if EF is what is causing so much trouble for your very bright child, they should teach the strategies to help her initiate, plan, organize and execute on her work so that her gifts are recognized.

    How can you do this?

    When you said she has been tested twice - was this by the school? Have you ever referred her for a special ed evaluation? If not, I would start with the school. If she has been evaluated already for special ed, you are entitled to an IEE (Independent Education Evaluation) by a credentialed independent evaluated of your choice paid for by the district. This professional can use diagnostic testing to help understand what is going on and what is needed to help your child. If your child qualifies for special ed (and doing well in school does not necessarily preclude one from sped), the school should provide the needed instruction to help your child be more efficient, productive and successful.

    If she hasn't been evaluated by the district yet, their evaluation may be sufficient to shed light on what is going on. But, again, if you disagree with the results for any reason (ie they don't have comprehensive enough recommendations), you can then request an IEE.

    Even if you find a medication that works, it doesn't magically provide the EF skills that are needed for success in school and life. They will simply make it easier for her to access instruction for the skills and will help her better remember to use the strategies.

    As far as techniques at home - I like these two practical books:

    "Late Lost and Unprepared"
    "No Mind Left Behind"

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