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    I requested that my son be considered for a subject acceleration in math. His current math placement is VERY inappropriate.

    We received a response from the principal stating that because the school is participating in the Methods of Effective Teaching Study sponsored by the Gates Foundation that no student can be moved once they are placed for the year.

    But they had his test scores (all at 99%) and never considered him for alternative placement. Additionally, I tried to contact the school last year to get clarification on the curriculum, but nobody ever called me back.

    Is anybody else in this situation? Does anyone have a contact involved in this study (I am afraid my email will get lost in the shuffle)? Anyone know anything about the general philosphy of the Gates Foundation? I know they have gotten some so-so press lately, but I don't think this is an issue that will get too many people fired up, so trying to puplicize it won't help. Anyone have any ideas?

    I forwarded the response from the school to the Gates Foundation with the following note:

    As explained in the email chain below, we have been informed that our son�s math placement is inflexible due to his school�s participation in the Methods of Effective Teaching Study sponsored by the Gates Foundation.

    We have not been remiss in seeking appropriate placement for our son. Prior to the end of the 2009-2010 school year I contacted XXXXX Elementary and asked that a faculty member contact me regarding the school�s curriculum, but I never heard back. Very shortly after the start of the school year my husband and I met with my son�s math teacher and the gifted coordinator and this restriction was not mentioned.

    I think it is very unfortunate that the Gates Foundation is inadvertently placing us in a position where we have to consider removing our son from this school mid-year, but I am confident this is an unintended consequence which can be resolved. Could someone please contact me on this can be achieved? It is very likely that there are other children in other schools who may be having their educations compromised as well. It seems obvious that it is in everyone�s interest, especially the students�, to resolve this as quickly as possible.



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    Is this a public school? Sounds like complete BS on the part of the school, trying to avoid something they dont' want to do. If a public school, no way in heck should individual educational determinations should be held hostage in order to secure grant funding. I would be making a big stink about this. I guess a charter school or something else might have some argument about this, but I would not at all let it go.

    How much do you want to bet that you don't get a response from the Gates Foundation.

    Cat

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    I found the names of some individuals involved in elementary education at the Gates Foundaion and emailed them as well. Some were undeliverable, but a few went though. We'll see.

    The one to William Gates got returned. Oh well.

    It is a public school.

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    I'd guess there must be someone from the district involved in the implementation of this study at your school. I'd poke around at the district level to see if you can find someone who can help you (I might start by asking about the study itself and how your school was chosen, and try not to mention your child's issue until you find the right person).

    How frustrating!

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    Originally Posted by master of none
    If it's a study, doesn't that mean that you need to give consent for participation? I can't believe a school can participate in a study without getting informed consent. But maybe I'm naive.
    I can easily believe that a school can participate in a study without getting informed consent from every child's parent - otherwise no school would ever be able to participate in anything! However, the study must, I think, have been approved by some ethics committee, or at the very least, there is a person running it who is responsible for its being ethically run. That person or committee would be interesting to identify.

    My cynical best guess would be that, if this is not simple a lie, then it's something like:

    Study organisers: Do we have to worry about children changing year group during the year?

    School: Oh no, we'd never permit that.

    Study organisers: Good, we'll write in that that won't happen, then.

    School, later: See, it says here that children won't change year group during the year.


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    I realize now I was mislead. The principal is simply refusing to move him and gave the study as the reason. It's not possible that the study can FORBID a child changing classes.

    I also found out the teachers get paid $1500. They probably deserve it, but it seems unsavory in this context.

    We are meeting next week and I will ask exactly what the penalty is to the school/teacher stipends if he is reassigned (I'm doubt there is any). And how it was determined that a private foundation should be able to dictate placement.

    I bet we still don't get any results.

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    Originally Posted by CollinsMum
    I can easily believe that a school can participate in a study without getting informed consent from every child's parent - otherwise no school would ever be able to participate in anything!

    I am at a university and do research in schools. Consent *is required* from the parent of every child included in the study. There is an institutional review board at the university and at each school that must approve the plan before it can be implemented. And you can bet they will reject the plan if it doesn't involve collecting consent forms for each participant.

    Last edited by amylou; 09/23/10 08:51 AM.
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    I looked it up; it's called the MET Project. Teachers get small stipends for participating. If the school didn't notify the parents, they've probably messed up, and pretty badly, especially if they're giving surveys to the students or videotaping them for the project.

    You could raise a legitimate stink about this. Basically, if the school is saying that your child can't be accelerated because of this project, and especially if the school would have considered acceleration otherwise (e.g. if there's a policy in writing or a law that's being ignored), the school is forcing him to participate in research without your consent. This is a pretty blatant violation of informed consent laws.

    Are they making videotapes or any other records for this project, without consent? Again, another violation of informed consent.

    See this article. Scroll down to section 5 (Research). Informed consent applies to social research as well as medical research.

    I suspect that the school is the problem here, rather than the Gates Foundation. But they all have an obligation to ensure that they get informed consent.

    I advise writing an extremely pointed letter to the school board (NOT the principal) pointing out that they've ignored your previous requests and asking them why they're forcing your son to participate in research without your consent. Use the term "in violation of informed consent laws." It will get their attention. You need to write a letter or send an email; don't let this go through verbal communication.

    If the response you got from the principal was in writing, photocopy it or scan it and send it. If he gave a written response saying the study was the reason for refusing the request, the school could be on the hook, regardless.

    I work in research, and people just can't do this kind of stuff without your permission.

    From what you've written, the principal seems to have made up his mind and you'll get nowhere with him, which is why you might want to consider going over his head. From the school board's perspective, looking bad in public and causing a possible uproar over informed consent is worse than letting some kid do appropriate math.

    Val

    Last edited by Val; 09/23/10 08:59 AM. Reason: Clarity
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    Thanks Val,

    My husband found a mention of the study in the minutes from a PTA meeting last year. But we were not at the school last year and I don't recall being informed.

    It's not impossible that I signed a general release in the rush of the first few days, but it would be atypical for me to have no memory of it. I could certainly argue that the implications weren't disclosed.

    Now that I think of it there was a form that mentioned kids being interviewed by the media. I thought it was weird and I either crossed that out if it was part of a longer form or did not submit it. I remember mentioning it to my husband and telling him it was a bad idea - kids can say weird things. So obviously I was signing things in that vein but I was reading them.

    You think I should go to the school board right way? Not wait until Monday? What about the district superintendent? I think the principal has made a blunder and I'd like to give her a chance to corrrect it.

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    Originally Posted by JaneSmith
    I bet we still don't get any results.

    Gently saying this: keeping everything verbal helps them ignore you. Keeping everything written down forces them to pay attention to you.

    Val

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    Thinking out loud, I would think that even if a parent DID consent, such consent could be revoked at any time, especially in a situation where continued participation would so obviously hinder the child's education.

    I'd want to (a) find out from the Gates Foundation the precise parameters of the study and consent, and (b) I think you're right to give the principal another chance here (I think you're correct that she's probably just using the study as an excuse), though I can't say I'd want to wait a week (when is your appt? if it's not until late next week I'd try to get in with her today; if it's Monday, I'd wait and take the time to arm myself with...whatever I could find).

    Are there kids in the school whose parents did not consent? Is this a regular neighborhood elementary school, or some other special type of school?

    Last edited by snowgirl; 09/23/10 09:06 AM.
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    I really appreciate all the fast responses as timeliness is a consideration. Thanks everyone.

    Following up on the last two posts by Val and snowgirl I'm thinking I will email the principal today and say I don't recall signing a release for participation in a research project that would impact his placement.

    This way I'm not blindsiding her on Monday and she has a chance to evaluate the situation and realize the easiest course of action hor her nad the school.

    ETA - emailing today also avoids keeping it verbal.

    Last edited by JaneSmith; 09/23/10 09:17 AM.
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    I would give the principal one more shot, and then move up the chain of command. I say this because it seems pretty clear the principal just made this up on the fly (or is clueless).

    A bigger concern to me is the conflict of interest between getting more money for the school and the needs of kids.

    I would, in writing, communicate something like this.

    "I am writing once again to address the issue of our request to have DC [accelerated to 3rd grade or whatever]. Based on our conversation [or email or letter] of September X, 2010 you indicated that such a request was impossible because of a grant provided to the school by the Gates Foundation for the [blah blah] study. According to you, the Study does not allow [blah blah].

    I am deeply disturbed by the position you [or the school] have taken. If indeed the Gates Foundation study does not allow children to move classrooms, then the district has created a serious conflict of interest in which additional funding and/or payments to teachers are given priority over the right of a child to an appropriate educational environment. In addition, my child's inclusion in the MET study is in violation of informed consent laws, as I am quite certain that i have never given consent for my child to participate in a study which would so limit his/her educational option.

    If my understanding of our prior conversation is incorrect, or if I have misunderstood the school's relationship to the Gate's Foundation study, I look forward to your clarification. "


    I would send this letter before your meeting to Principal and I would hope for a reply before that. Also, do not go to the meeting with the Principal alone. Take a spouse, partner, parent, friend or someone, and take very good notes.

    I would definitely, however you word things, make sure you give the principal a way to back down on this. Be willing to politely say with a smile "I am sure I must have misunderstood your position as I am certain the school would never sacrifice a child's right to an appropriate education in order to pay their teachers $1500 more per year.

    I mean really, if there was a major bullying situation, they wouldn't be able to move a kid from a class?

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    I think that an email or a letter to the principal is a good idea. I would re-state very clearly what you want (math subject acceleration) and your supporting data. Then I would state that you do not recall consenting to your son's participation in a study but that it may have been in the morass of paper that you got at the beginning of the year. (This may provide them a way to save face). Either way, you are withdrawing your consent at this time. Given that your son will no longer be proceeding with the study, you would like to address implementation of math acceleration at your next meeting.

    You may want to consider whether to cc people in the district who are higher up in the food chain. Like it or not, bumping it to a higher level may be necessary in your case.

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    Originally Posted by Catalana
    I would definitely, however you word things, make sure you give the principal a way to back down on this. Be willing to politely say with a smile "I am sure I must have misunderstood your position as I am certain the school would never sacrifice a child's right to an appropriate education in order to pay their teachers $1500 more per year.

    I think Catalana has some great ideas for a letter/email above. I think this is an especially important point, to give the principal a way to save face.

    I'm sure I misunderstood you, it couldn't be that a child's education is sacrificed in the name of research, isn't the goal here to improve education rather than wrecking it, there must be a way we can work together/work something out for the child's sake, something along those lines...

    I must have had too much caffeine again this morning - I keep thinking, what is your BATNA here (best alternative to a negotiated agreement). Can you do math at home, regardless of what ends up happening at school? For example, my dd is doing EPGY math at home because I don't have complete faith in her school giving her the acceleration she needs, even though (they think) they're trying. Having it on the computer is quite a boon for me; it's much easier for someone else to teach her LOL, as well as guide the curriculum, and then I merely help here and there as needed.

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    Yes, yes, yes to all the preceding posts. I was just trying to write an email just like you are all suggesting, although I think I will try to keep it a little more informal in tone. These suggestions are wonderful and I will use them as a checklist ot make sure I have not forgotten anything. I agree with going the "I must be confused" route.

    snowgirl, the problem we face is that I work full time (although I'm not getting much done today) and the kids are at two different schools. So we don't get home until 4, and bedtime is 8-ish (early risers). I do piano with both kids and my younger son isn't too great at occupying himself. I also have a young dog that needs to be exercised. So I was really in hopes that I would not have to provide a complete year's worth of math at home. I'm not averse to doing my part, really!

    If they would allow a private tutor on site after school hours (instead of the two hours he spend in after school care), that would work. As would allowing him to take the EPGY course during school. Actually, now that I think of it - he wouldn't need much help with that, would he? He could view the lesson with headphones while I did piano with his brother? That's how EPGY works, right?

    Last edited by JaneSmith; 09/23/10 09:55 AM.
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    Originally Posted by JaneSmith
    I work full time ...So I was really in hopes that I would not have to provide a complete year's worth of math at home. I'm not averse to doing my part, really!

    You shouldn't feel guilty about not doing the school's job. smile Sounds to me like you're already doing your part and more!

    Keep on truckin'

    Val

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    Originally Posted by JaneSmith
    Yes, yes, yes to all the preceding posts. I was just trying to write an email just like you are all suggesting, although I think I will try to keep it a little more informal in tone. These suggestions are wonderful and I will use them as a checklist ot make sure I have not forgotten anything. I agree with going the "I must be confused" route.

    snowgirl, the problem we face is that I work full time (although I'm not getting much done today) and the kids are at two different schools. So we don't get home until 4, and bedtime is 8-ish (early risers). I do piano with both kids and my younger son isn't too great at occupying himself. I also have a young dog that needs to be exercised. So I was really in hopes that I would not have to provide a complete year's worth of math at home. I'm not averse to doing my part, really!

    If they would allow a private tutor on site after school hours (instead of the two hours he spend in after school care), that would work. As would allowing him to take the EPGY course during school. Actually, now that I think of it - he wouldn't need much help with that, would he? He could view the lesson with headphones while I did piano with his brother? That's how EPGY works, right?

    That's the whole beauty of EPGY. We're still relatively new to it, but I'm pleased so far. Sometimes I have to step in and try to teach something that a lecture didn't make clear (just as I might with homework from school), and I also use the videos at Khan Academy if I need help. Plus DH does a better job of explaining if he's around, especially on the weekend. But I too struggle with the time that teaching something outside of school takes - I feel your pain. I have lots of workbooks/curricula on the shelf collecting dust because I don't have time to do it (we have six kids ages 1-9). And with piano, one of my kids still needs me to sit with him, mostly that's a discipline issue but that's the only way I can get him to practice (otherwise he pretends LOL/grrrr). EPGY is in 20-minute segments; often they'll do more than one session but all I ask is that they get one session done per day. In the beginning, it make take a little help from you to get acclimated to maneuvering around the window on the computer. But my dd9 rarely asks for help anymore with that - she even knows her log-in numbers by heart. I believe the program recommends doing one 20-minute session 4 or 5 times per week in order to get through a whole year's worth of math in a year. My kids do more than that, but I started them back at their actual grade levels to make sure we fill in any holes in their knowledge (this seems especially true with geometry for some reason, as well as simultaneous equations). So, to answer your question, yes he could do that with headphones while the other one plays piano, with little to no help from you (it helps for you to be nearby, so he can ask you for help if he needs it, just a bit here and there. and then you can go back to the piano...). Heck my kids do EPGY without headphones while someone else is playing piano and general mayhem prevails LOL....

    ETA: yeah, what Val said too!

    ETA: someone is often doing EPGY right here in the kitchen while I'm making dinner. I think that's a fine thing to do, especially since you're pressed for time.

    Last edited by snowgirl; 09/23/10 10:17 AM.
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    Update:

    It *is* the Gates Foundation study. They are paying the teachers and achools to participate in the study and dictating no placement changes. They are also videotaping the children. You can opt out of being videotaped, but I think that means your child misses class on the days they videotape. You can't opt out of the study (and the placement restrictions) because they are claiming that the children aren't in the study, only the teachers.


    Is it me or is this nuts? And kind of scary?

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    Holy cow! That's unbelievable! Is there any way you can draw attention to this? How many schools are in the study?

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    If the kid isn't part of the study then why are they restricting the kid? This is disturbing.

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    Originally Posted by JaneSmith
    Update:

    It *is* the Gates Foundation study. They are paying the teachers and achools to participate in the study and dictating no placement changes. They are also videotaping the children. You can opt out of being videotaped, but I think that means your child misses class on the days they videotape. You can't opt out of the study (and the placement restrictions) because they are claiming that the children aren't in the study, only the teachers.


    Is it me or is this nuts? And kind of scary?

    I would raise a huge stink at any and all levels with anyone who will listen, both at the foundation and in the school district. This makes NO sense.

    Thinking out loud, if the TEACHERS are the ones participating in the study, what difference would it make if a student changes placement??

    Thinking out loud some more, wouldn't having a child placed at the wrong level lead to inaccurate results, if the results of this study involve student performance?

    ETA: if changing placement would mess up their results, why not just exclude that data from the results? What would they do if a student was placed at too high a level?

    I like Austin's suggestion below - perhaps your local paper has a columnist who deals with education. Though I'd probably go to the district superintendant first, then the school board, and simultaneously the foundation, and see where I got before I'd go outside of those two groups.

    Last edited by snowgirl; 09/27/10 09:42 AM.
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    Originally Posted by JaneSmith
    Update:

    It *is* the Gates Foundation study. They are paying the teachers and achools to participate in the study and dictating no placement changes. They are also videotaping the children. You can opt out of being videotaped, but I think that means your child misses class on the days they videotape. You can't opt out of the study (and the placement restrictions) because they are claiming that the children aren't in the study, only the teachers.


    Is it me or is this nuts? And kind of scary?


    Sounds unethical to me. Who are the researchers involved in this?

    I'd email up the chain of command.

    You could also send a letter to the paper and try to find a high rank blogger who is locally connected.

    Then there is the local press. This could be a pretty juicy story. I doubt any of the other parents know about this.

    Bill Gates attended a school just for GT kids when he was growing up. He got a lot of pullouts and special programs including the use of public computing resources which he used to start his business. His mom did a lot of advocating for him.






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    I'm thinking a lot of other parents won't care. Because most grade accelerations would have been worked out last school year. It also applies to groups within a grade - the idea is that you can't switch teachers. We are facing this because we are new to the school.

    Honestly, I'm a little nervous to push. I know I sound like a conspiricy theorist, but this is so egregious I can't attribute it to an oversight. Powerful private foundation backed by billions takes over public education....

    It sounds like the begining of a science fiction novel.

    I can't track the researchers. I found a couple names on a document last week and emailed them @gatesfoundation. I know a few went through, but nobody contacted me.

    Last edited by JaneSmith; 09/27/10 09:43 AM.
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    To the extent possible, I would use language that describes the situation as an error in placement, a mistake that needs to be fixed that is the school's fault, rather than you asking for acceleration like it's a favor to you.

    I'd be asking, why can't a mistake be fixed.

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    Unbelievable.

    And if the child is not in the study, there is no reason the child cannot be moved!

    I would make a massive stink over this. In addition to the other suggestions above, I would contact my state gifted and talented organization, my state education department, and maybe speak with someone at Davidson and see if they have any knowledge about this or insights.

    Given how unethical this is, I wouldn't hesitate to contact a local state legislator either. This is completely beyond acceptable.

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    I know what to do because of another issue I went through last year unrelated to my kids. Even though many highly placed experts tried to help me out and public opinion was in my favor, the publicity hurt me in the end. The decision maker turned out to be an ex-military guy who did not appreciate me going to the press and/or having the nerve to question his department. I am going to send an email to a contact I have at a local news station and may she'll follow up. I think it's a great story and I wish her well, but I'm sick of it.

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    Originally Posted by kcab
    Also, assuming that they will know what education the kids have received this year is false since any parent who realizes their kid needs something additional will supplement outside of school, where it will be entirely uncontrolled and unaccounted for in the study.

    Welcome to the world of edumacation studies. You do not want to know how many of these studies fail to include appropriate control groups and how many fail to ensure that the methods they're testing are reproducible and valid.

    In this situation, I'd ask who the control group is and how they've ensured that each control group gets the same instruction. If they're just using "students who weren't taught by our methods," they'll end up comparing a zillion different teaching methods with their own. Sounds like very noisy "control" data to me.

    How are they controlling for academic activities outside school or lack thereof?

    Importantly, how will they measure outcomes? Are all the kids going to take the same tests (eg every participating 3rd grader around the country will take one math test, including control groups)?

    If not, how will they compare outcomes? They can't use standardized tests written by states because each state has a different test. They can't compare this year's kids with last year's kids because the kids are different (and presumably the test, too). Even if they claim that the high numbers of students normalize the data, many of the teachers will have changed and maybe textbooks and homework too. How will they know they're comparing apples with apples?

    I have no idea how any of these parameters have been set up in this project; I'm only throwing out questions to help you judge the validity of the study.

    FWIW, I looked at some guidelines written for projects funded by the NSF, and their educational studies seem to be exempt from institutional review and consent. Don't know how this applies here, as the project isn't NSF-funded frown

    My cynical side is thinking, "Lack of institutional review is a factor in the low quality of education studies."



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    Permission slip arrived today. It says you CAN opt out. In three separate categories. Videotaping (although they obliquely admit it might not be possible), survey taking, and inclusion of your child's assignments in the anonymous collection of student work samples.

    There is no mention of restrictions on placement in the permission form. In fact, it states, "We are not asking teachers or student to do anything special or different because of this study - we simply want to gather information in classrooms as teachers and students enrage in their regular activities."

    I don't know what is going on.

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    Can you find out how the gates program is structured from an administrative perspective?

    There has to be a coordinator or PM for your school. Can you contact them?

    Thinking out of the box here, but perhaps the gates program people can become an advocate for you? In the short and long term? From what I have read in the last hour, they seem pretty dedicated to making changes.


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    Originally Posted by Austin
    Can you find out how the gates program is structured from an administrative perspective?

    There has to be a coordinator or PM for your school. Can you contact them?

    Thinking out of the box here, but perhaps the gates program people can become an advocate for you? In the short and long term? From what I have read in the last hour, they seem pretty dedicated to making changes.

    I emailed several people at the Gates Foundation Thursday, but I only had names and had to guess at the email addresses. I think only 2 or 3 went though. Nobody has gotten back to me.

    The permission slip contained the name of someone at the Gates Foundation and it looks like he is the academic in charge of the project. I sent him an email saying that either the school principal is misinformed (in which case, could he please clear this up) or that his study is not obtaining informed consent. I would imagine that this accusation loosens the bowels of any reputable researcher.

    I just hope he checks his email. I sent it to his university because I am not sure what the email convention is at the Gates Foundation. I also stole your point about Bill Gates being the beneficiary of exceptional educational opportunities and suggested he would not have intentionally funded a study that would prevent a bright child from appropriate placement.

    So I threatened his reputation and his funding. To bad I can't follow through!

    The school has not been helpful. They are either lying or confused. The school district is huge and has a bad reputation for bureaucratic nonsense. I think it would be a lot of effort with little return, but I'll probably do a email tomorrow with a lot of cc's.

    I did NOT use the syphilis reference, but I enjoyed reading that!

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    If you don't get anything useful out of the guy in charge of the project, I think the next step would be to email this to Anderson Cooper 360 at CNN, for his "Keeping them Honest" segment. He might be interested in getting some answers!

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    Someone asked me about this and I realized I should provide a summary of how eveything ended up:

    In the end I gave up. Nobody from the Gates Foundation responded to any of my emails and the school principal changed her story several times. At our final meeting she said they would NEVER allow an outside organization to dictate placement.

    She also said they gave my son a test on the fourth grade material and his score did not qualify him to be accelerated (I think he got an 80 or 85%). We were not informed that he was being tested for placement prior to being told he had not qualified.

    The catch is that the test was administered by the Gates study! The principal didn't even seem capable of grasping that this WAS allowing an outside organization to dictate placement. She even admited she had never seen the test and didn't know what was on it. She also couldn't tell me what the range of scores in my son's class was.

    My son is taking an EPGY course online.

    I don't think our difficulties were caused by the Gates study, but the school definitely used the study an an excuse to not deal with us and nobody at the Gates Foundation stepped up to prevent it. And they certainly did not do an adequate job of communicating the study parameters to school personnel or parents. Very disturbing situation.

    As I mentioned previously, the academic in charge of the study DID respond to an email I sent to him at the university he is affiliated with. But after our final conversation with the principal I didn't think it was worth anyone's time to pursue it further.

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