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    #85588 - 09/22/10 12:20 PM x
    master of none Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/18/08
    Posts: 2946
    h


    Edited by master of none (12/27/13 06:31 PM)

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    #85591 - 09/22/10 12:50 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    ColinsMum Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/08
    Posts: 1898
    Loc: Scotland
    Good luck! I think "we don't want to rehash last year" may be a pretty good starting point. Something like, "We hear you, and we're sure you're right for many children, but we already know from last year that our DD needs more"?

    Do you have a bottom line, or a Plan B in case you get absolutely nowhere? Even if Plan B is much worse than what I'm aiming for, I often find it helps to know in my head what's the very worst that could happen - that is, to know what deal I'd just walk away from.
    _________________________
    Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail

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    #85593 - 09/22/10 01:01 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    Momma Bear Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/21/09
    Posts: 158
    Sounds like you are tying to be reasonable with the school. Nice hasn't been the greatest system for us. Nice to the teacher, & principal yes. Firm and unyeilding with the district. That's our method. Education is trickle down. The district has the power so I fight at that level. I'm huge on knowing your district and state guidelines forwards and backwards. That way you can use their language. For example you could remind them that according to policy X, the school must provide each gifted student a FAPE (free and appropriate education). Or document Z says that acceleration is available. If there is a policy quote it page and line #. FYI- just because they say there is one agaist your request, doesn't mean there is. I'm finding in my district that they don't even know their own policies, misqoute the ones they do and out right lie on others. So request copies from your state board of education and your district. Your state policies trump your districts.

    If you're state doesn't mandate what you want you can still use language they will get. "I'm looking to get a free and appropriate education for Johnny" or "If Johnny is operating at grade 5 in math and he is in the 2nd grade, explain how it is appropriate that he is doing 2nd grade math?" When they explain there side have your answer ready. There are really only a few responses they can give. I prepared my answers ahead of time.

    You can also request they do the Iowa Acceleration Scale with you as a participant. Its suppose to be a good way to see if a student needs a grade skip or how close they are to one. May give you some leverage.

    Good luck!!!

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    #85598 - 09/22/10 01:37 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    snowgirl Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/24/08
    Posts: 361
    Originally Posted By: master of none
    The Iowa Acceleration Scale would automatically disqualify her due to her brother being in the potentially receiving grade, even though we are all on board with this, even DS.


    I'm just skimming posts here, but this caught my eye. No siblings allowed in the same grade? (What on earth do they do with twins? Indeed, I have twins, at a school with a rule that no siblings are in the same classroom. But there are 7 possible clasrooms, and they are all multi-grade, so there's never a problem.) It boggles my mind that having a sibling should have any affect on grade placement. Perhaps I misunderstand?

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    #85599 - 09/22/10 01:37 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    kcab Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/02/07
    Posts: 1603
    Loc: Sparta, apparently
    MON, IIRC your DD is a force to be reckoned with, yes? Maybe you need to channel your inner DD...

    I think, though I haven't checked, that the IASM wouldn't rule out subject acceleration due to sibling proximity. You might want to bring it anyway, just to put it on the top of the pile of things you bring to the meeting. Also, perhaps a copy of "What a Child Doesn't Learn"? Maybe pass that around ahead of time?

    Perhaps it is useful to remind people that it isn't possible to choose not to have problems, only which problems to have? Sounds like you want to choose different problems from those you had with DD last year.

    Here's to a fruitful meeting.
    _________________________
    kcab

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    #85600 - 09/22/10 01:44 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    Momma Bear Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/21/09
    Posts: 158
    Wow, districts can be so different! Wouldn't it be great to have consistency across the board?

    No mandates and the IAC wouldn't work. Yuck! You do have your hands full! In that case I'd show them how acceleration or a grade skip would really make their lives easier as well as being the right choice for the student. In the case of acceleration maybe create the plan for them where computer education can be incorporated for the acceleration. That wouldn't be hard for them to do. Or in the grade skip that you would do the lessons they think he needs at home to prove there aren't going to be gaps if the skip takes place.

    Hopes for your success!!!

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    #85616 - 09/22/10 07:01 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    Nautigal Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/22/09
    Posts: 1032
    I haven't studied the IAS in depth, because we haven't needed it, but my impression was that it just provides recommendations and some directional thinking--not that it would "disqualify" anyone from any acceleration. Did I get the wrong impression there?

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    #85618 - 09/22/10 07:18 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    Eleanor05 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/17/09
    Posts: 69
    The IAS is based on research, and through the research it was determined that when one child accelerates into the same grade as an older sibling, statistically speaking, the skip is more likely to cause more problems than it solves. Does this mean a grade skip into a grade where an older sibling is present won't work? No, it just means that according to the research behind the IAS it is more likely to cause more problems than it solves. The IAS specifically recommends NO SKIP in this scenario and suggests instead the next best thing- subject acceleration. I only know this because I've recently combed through it.

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    #85642 - 09/23/10 07:10 AM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    Catalana Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/10/09
    Posts: 393
    It sounds like you are most concerned about them just relying on enrichment for your daughter. I would focus on convincing them that enrichment alone is not enough. Not sure if your daughter needs LA or math or both in terms of acceleration but there are materials out there (developing math talent book leaps to mind) that are very very clear that there are 3 prongs to meeting the needs of a gifted learned: 1. speed of instruction; 2. depth of instruction; 3. enrichment. It is a triad and without all three most G/T kids are not being challenged. Point out that a child with an IQ of 130 will learn material 8 times faster compared to a kid with an IQ of 90 (supposedly the pace most instruction moves at). Do not say anything bad about enrichment, simply say that you are not concerned about the enrichment piece, you are concerned about the pacing piece.

    Do you have any of your own evidence that DD knows the material she might skip? If not, perhaps the focus should be on "before we focus on acceleration, we need to determine an appropriate placement - when can you test her to see whether one or two years is the right answer," etc.

    Keep up on it. It took us nearly a full year of constant pressure to get movement by our school district, but it was worth it.

    Cat

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    #85650 - 09/23/10 08:08 AM x [Re: master of none]
    master of none Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/18/08
    Posts: 2946
    h


    Edited by master of none (12/27/13 11:05 AM)

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    #85652 - 09/23/10 08:15 AM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    inky Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/10/08
    Posts: 1299

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    #85653 - 09/23/10 08:19 AM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    Cecilia Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/07/09
    Posts: 159
    Hi master of none! We will be in your same position soon...Wanted to wish you luck! Hang in there...You know what's best and don't let them back you down! You'll do great smile

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    #85662 - 09/23/10 09:04 AM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    jenner Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 06/10/10
    Posts: 40
    Inky,
    Thank you so much for that link--my daughter (10) was just talking about how much she hates those timed tests. I think I'll let her read some of that article...

    Master of None--I'm afraid I can't be of any help, but I'd love to hear how your meeting goes. I'm thinking we might be in the same situation with DD 7.

    I'm just so grateful for the discussions on this board. Even though I'm relatively new, I've learned so much!
    jenner

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    #85671 - 09/23/10 09:50 AM Re: Back for more support [Re: inky]
    snowgirl Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/24/08
    Posts: 361
    Originally Posted By: inky


    Yep thanks from me too - great link. I saved it for later - I'm sure it'll come in handy sometime.

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    #85672 - 09/23/10 09:51 AM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    Catalana Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/10/09
    Posts: 393
    Re: "Next, they really donít think she is THAT smart."

    Keep repeating, over and over, "how do you know what math is appropriate for her if you have never tested her on an above grade instrument." The speed and the "apparent" brightness were arguments my school used too, and I just keep repeating that they were irrelevant, what mattered was hard data on what son knew and what he was capable of. [Head beating against wall smile )

    And that being said, do you have SCAT or achievement scores for her?

    Cat

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    #85680 - 09/23/10 10:06 AM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    knute974 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/22/09
    Posts: 683
    Loc: controlled chaos
    Inky, Thanks from me too. I have been wondering about this. In the real world does it matter whether my child can spit out that 4x7=28 in 2 seconds versus 20 seconds? I doubt that it would anywhere except in a timed testing situation. Accuracy with reasonable speed seems sufficient in most real life situations.

    As I've watched DD10's progression on timed tests, I think is was 100 problems in 5 minutes in 3rd grade, then 2 minutes in 4th grade last year. It seems like there is a point of diminishing returns for how much time they waste on this kind of stuff and how much stress it can induce. Now we are starting the process with DD8. I'm having a hard time mustering any kind of enthusiasm for going over math facts.

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    #85702 - 09/23/10 12:47 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    MES Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 09/20/09
    Posts: 29
    And, don't let them tell you that with time she'll be faster and then be ready to move ahead. She may be faster, but she may not. My DYS left for school this morning with an honors pre-calculus quiz to take. He wasn't at all worried about understanding the material, only whether he'd have enough time to finish the test. He is a slow processer who still calculates many math facts each time. What has cahnged is that he wants to advocate for himself. Last year, he wanted me to send a note explaining his "slowness". This year he wants to see how it goes and then advocate for himself. Good Luck.

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    #85703 - 09/23/10 12:58 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    DeeDee Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/16/10
    Posts: 2498
    Originally Posted By: master of none
    perhaps rather than sitting in the teacher's room mocking me (like I've heard them do with other parents when I'm volunteering there), maybe they would take the info to people who can help them?


    They might... but they might not. (They might be embarrassed to sound ignorant to their colleagues.) And the school psych might be able to... or might not.

    Can you bring an expert to the meeting who is capable of interpreting the scores for them? Advocate? Tester? Somebody?

    DeeDee

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    #86207 - 09/29/10 12:01 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    ColinsMum Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/08
    Posts: 1898
    Loc: Scotland
    Congrats! I think you know what you're doing; it'll be fine :-)
    _________________________
    Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail

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    #86209 - 09/29/10 12:29 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    bh14 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/09
    Posts: 367
    WAHOO!!!!! Good for you! I can TOTALLY relate to the "moving a mountain!" Those were my exact words when we advocated for a grade skip in a school with no history of ever allowing it. I really felt like we moved a mountain (and so did the school who was admittedly impressed by the level of research we provided and the effort we put in to make it happen.)

    GOOD FOR YOU! I am so happy for you! SEE.... it pays off. No one likes to have to do it, but it has to start somewhere so go ahead and give yourself a BIG PAT ON THE BACK! YOU DID IT!

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    #86215 - 09/29/10 02:09 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Originally Posted By: master of none
    NOW, what the heck do we do???? What if it doesn't work???? What if the kids hate her????? What if she isn't willing to work hard enough???? How long can we keep it from the extended family? Will they notice when she graduates high school at the same time as her brother who is two years older??? Extended family on each side would not approve.

    High School graduation is a long way from now. So many paths could open between now and then! You are only allowed to worry about the next 2 months - tops! The rest you post here or jot down and forget for now.

    There is this tendency to blame every bad thing that will ever happen to a gradeskipped kid on the gradeskip. So if the kids do hate her or it doesn't work out, you post here and we'll all brainstorm some ideas, and you'll try and see what works - that's life:Trust it.

    Hurray for you for having tried it and moving the mountain to get it!
    Love and More Love,
    Grinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #86219 - 09/29/10 02:45 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    jesse Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/10/09
    Posts: 283
    Loc: twilightzone
    A bit late here, but congratz on the advocacy and grade skip!

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    #86223 - 09/29/10 03:05 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: jesse]
    kcab Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/02/07
    Posts: 1603
    Loc: Sparta, apparently
    Yay! You did it! So glad it went well. Deal with the problems that come up when they do, you just can't anticipate everything ahead of time.
    _________________________
    kcab

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    #86230 - 09/29/10 04:19 PM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    RobotMom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/25/09
    Posts: 604
    Loc: in a happier place
    Congrats! I love reading about these success stories. It always puts a smile on my face.

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    #86258 - 09/30/10 04:26 AM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    Catalana Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/10/09
    Posts: 393
    Awesome! Congratulations.

    I understand the worry, but you have really done your research and have based your request on objective evidence (honestly, they wouldn't have approved it if they were not confident also), I am sure things will work out fine.

    Great work, your kids are lucky to have you helping them learn!

    Cat

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    #86267 - 09/30/10 05:51 AM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    Momma Bear Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/21/09
    Posts: 158
    Congrats!!! Success for your kids is the best feeling in the world!!

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    #86273 - 09/30/10 06:18 AM Re: Back for more support [Re: master of none]
    Mama22Gs Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/04/09
    Posts: 326
    grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

    Congratulations, MoN!!!

    I know how important this was to you and DD, and how hard you worked for this.

    Way to go!!!!

    grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

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