Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 167 guests, and 10 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    parentologyco, Smartlady60, petercgeelan, eterpstra, Valib90
    11,410 Registered Users
    March
    S M T W T F S
    1 2
    3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
    Grinity #8501 02/08/08 09:05 AM
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    ISTEP is the name of the grade-level testing in Indiana, Grinity. Just FYI. So everything you say is right on target--boredom, not necessarily a good screener, etc.


    Kriston
    Grinity #8538 02/08/08 10:05 PM
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 21
    J
    Junior Member
    Offline
    Junior Member
    J
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 21
    This is exactly what I hoped for. People with the kids impacted by our decisions to make ME think.
    But oh my, Grinity, do you really think they would let us talk about how much we can spend per one hundred children? This will, my dear, be a non-budgeted endeavor. Now, understand, the state does have some grant money that they hand out, but this year that money was received in January. It must be spent by the end of July. I can do a little higher level thinking, but it doesn't take that to figure out that leaves nothing to start programming for the fall.
    Our grant writer is heading our committee to get going. The first proposal was that we would identify in the fall to start programs in January to match the grant. I sent him my revised thoughts on that plan last week. This needs to happen this spring and start something this fall.
    I teach in a semi rural setting and a fairly small school system. When I came here they were just starting a pull-out program for 4th, 5th, and 6th graders. I was in two buildings. The larger one was my assignment for three days and the smaller one was the other two. You know how budgets are..... and we were in trouble on year number 5 of my career. Guess whose job was the first to be in the proposed cuts. (Here I am meeting with the coordinator arguing to increase the program and the superintendent is with the board eliminating it FIRST!!!) The building level administrators and coordinator SALVAGED the program to part time. Not great, but still something for the kids. (I also taught Title 1 reading for half the day after that decision. That may be where my penchant for the split I proposed came from.)
    Although it was okay, I was not happy in the position once it was watered down so- time wise. I requested a move to the classroom.
    My understanding, over the next few years (as the program was simply a stepping stone to something full time), the quality dwindled until the current superintendent insisted that it should just be eliminated.
    We have pretty much ignored the GT or high ability as Indiana now wants to call the group, until the state stepped in with this new law. Any questions parents had were always sent my way. My former students are now parents and asking questions about THEIR program. It is really kind of cool having those "kids" reminding of the things that we did. It makes me feel like I did make a difference in their educations. But my answering questions and sending parents to outside sources was our involvement.
    I know that you already are aware of this, but parents are usually much more in tune with the child's giftedness than the teachers involved. I can't tell you how many times I had to argue that it really didn't matter to me if the child was getting a D in history while in the regular classroom. While with me, he was the leader in the discussion on "whatever the days topic" or the one providing my latest challenge (before the days of internet) on where to find information on an adult type topic. His independent study was usually the most thorough and he had the most understanding of what he was to do. NO, I WILL NOT ASK THE PARENTS TO REMOVE HIM FROM THE PROGRAM.
    "Why should the child have to come back to your room and do the paper with 50 addition problems? You are a "cluster teacher" and are supposed to be doing curriculum compacting!" It was constant with some teachers. I honestly felt like it was a punishment to be bright at times. I was expecting more out of them than they had ever produced and their classroom teachers, I swear, did more worksheets in that 2-3 hours than they did the rest of the week altogether.

    Yes, there are times for complete sentences and sometimes my answer is, "Because I said so." Yet most of the time who cares? I am really just happy to get the thoughts down.
    I had that discussion on getting others to change their ways with a fellow teacher today--one that UNDERSTANDS- and she simply ended with......what are you going to do???? (Probably pull my hair out.)

    Wow!!! I had actually forgotten those headaches over the years!!

    By the way, I am also quite sure that our definition will be very broad (probably too much so) if we end up clustering. Those with high ability in one area will definitely be part of the mix.

    One thing that I am sure is going to have to happen is that more screening will have to be done prior to kindergarten entry. We have that all wrong right now too. We offer full day Kdg. to the neediest kids. Yet we wait until they are settled into the half day routine and then screen a couple of weeks into the year and totally change their schedule--sometimes including sections (classmates.) Just what I think you want to do to an adjusting kindergartner.
    (One of these days I may decide that I don't have enough influence from the four walls of my classroom and go after that administration degree. By then, though, my ideas will probably be stale.)



    Grinity #8540 02/08/08 10:20 PM
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 21
    J
    Junior Member
    Offline
    Junior Member
    J
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 21
    Grinity--I am so glad that someone helped define ISTEP+. My stupidity was in thinking, that just because it IS MY LIFE right now and not in a positive way now that we have the results, everyone knows this test.
    As achievement tests go, it does have a few little challenges called "applied skills." I can be a pretty good motivator when it comes to test time, so I truly believe that most of my best kids take the test VERY seriously--wish I could say the same on the other spectrum. I am even convinced that they have to do a little thinking on parts of it.
    Want to see a sample? Check out the Indiana Dept. of Ed. website and the past two years of all the applied skills (the more challenging part of the test) are available online along with the scoring guides.

    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    Originally Posted by Just ducky
    (One of these days I may decide that I don't have enough influence from the four walls of my classroom and go after that administration degree. By then, though, my ideas will probably be stale.)

    I sincerely doubt it! laugh


    Kriston
    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 830
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 830
    Originally Posted by Just ducky
    ...
    Yes, there are times for complete sentences and sometimes my answer is, "Because I said so." Yet most of the time who cares? I am really just happy to get the thoughts down.
    ...


    I appreciate your whole post, but I wanted to comment on this particular item since it applies to my GS8. The reason to make complete sentences is so the child learns to communicate his thoughts to others who are reading it. If the child knows it, but does not know how to pass knowlege to others, what good is it, unless the child lives his life in solitary confinement? It is a stretch for some to communicate their ideas in more than a short phrase, especially when answering a question pertaining to a paragraph just read; but it's good practice that leads into being able to write complete essays or theme papers.

    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 21
    J
    Junior Member
    Offline
    Junior Member
    J
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 21
    Grandma,
    I know that it sounded like writing sentences was never important to me, but I am referring to the mundane times when a short answer is more than sufficient. I guarantee that correct grammar and being able to communicate in complete sentences are both more than trivial things to me. In fact, I have been told that correct grammar is referred to as "my name's English" because I do have such high expectations.
    There are simply times, though, that sentences are not important to know if the child has a concept. G/T kids, especially, see through that sentence requirement as a time filler when it is used in that way. Essays and composition are totally different stories.
    One example of the times that I would seldom require the students to write sentences is in English practice with certain skills. The book will generally tell the student to copy the sentence and then "underline the nouns." I find that I really get better results with focus if I simply have the kids write the nouns from those sentences.

    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 7,207
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 7,207
    Actually JD,
    what I would love to see you doing is running a small school for the offspring of "your" students who have grown up and become parents...Neat thing is that you could 'teach' about 3 hours a day, and then offer babysitting for those who's parents can't do it themselves.

    Other than that, I agree with casting the net broadly, particularly if there isn't money for actual programing - I'd go as far as to take the top 10% and any kid of any parent who asks. Then you can refine from there as you go - but essentially, if the school isn't providing money, you are going to have to organize the parents to cough it up. In the meantime you main job is going to be creating alliances with the teachers. Yes, it's difficult, but by pulling out a larger chunk, you will have less of an uphill battle. You want to find a way to avoid those interpersonal battles from the past...being the boss and doing the hiring is one way...being the coach and offering a hand to help the other teachers get training in another, KWIM?

    Is your community the type that would pay for an afterschool program to give the really 'farthest out' kids some more individualized work?

    Anyway, I'm delighted that you are here!
    Wish you lived closer...
    Grinity


    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com
    Grinity #8697 02/12/08 04:57 AM
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 21
    J
    Junior Member
    Offline
    Junior Member
    J
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 21
    That is an interesting concept. As I look back, I loved those "kids" and the years I spent with them. I'm sure that I would have a wonderful time with "their" kids.

    I went to the Indiana G/T conference yesterday and got an entirely new perspective on the ID requirement. The net will have to be fairly broad to meet the guidelines of the new law. This is going to be a bigger challenge than I even thought. I can't wait to pass this on to the administration. (Although I like how it is going to direct us.)

    Hopefully, in 2009, there will be some grant money that can be used in the classrooms. This year, the money has been used to allow teachers to embark on individual initiatives. The good thing is that the teachers involved want to be doing what they are. The bad part is that it is actually not impacting very many kids. In my building we have a first grade activity in writing, a sixth grade robotics program, an intermediate grade "space" study, and then I will take a group of intermediate students to the Indiana Dunes Learning Center for 3 days and 2 nights this summer. (I took a group up there last year and it was fabulous.) I am not sure that I would have done the same thing, but my principal made that request. The feedback from the kids and parents was very positive.

    I am just not sure that our teachers are in the right mindset yet to realize that this is not just another attempt at a program. This is a law that is finally giving support to a group of kids that has been ignored. It is very likely that we are going to have several argue that we don't have that many kids that "fit the bill." We often are so focused on the state test for all that we do and the fact that was brought out at yesterday's conference on ID was that 66% of the high ability kids do not get a PASS+( the highest level) on the Language Arts section and 33% do not have that achievement on the math portion of the ISTEP+. (It might have been the reverse with those two subjects; I will have to check my notes. However, the impact is the same.)

    I would like to say that my community is all willing to pay for additional programming, but I don't know that most can afford that. Our free and reduced lunch rate has climbed to well over 30%, so immediately we would leave out several kids with needs.

    You have given me things to think about again, though. I do know that there will be many more questions as this program takes hold. I really appreciate the parental aspect of what all of you have shared. Too many times we lose sight of the parents in the role of education.

    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 830
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 830
    J_D, I didn't mean to imply you never made the children reply in complete sentences. The example you gave of copying a sentence, then underlining a noun or verb is a perfect example of something to drive a child to frustration; just writing down the word intended to be identified is a good solution.

    I have a pet peeve about the average adult not being able to communicate in clear, concise sentences in writing. I'm a computer programmer/analyst, and sometimes when I'm trying to define what is being requested I wonder if we're even speaking the same language. And reading a sentence constructed with extremely poor grammar is worse than fingernails on a chalkboard, to me. What good is knowledge if we are not able to communicate it to others?

    Why do you think so many high ability kids do not have high achievement scores on the ISTEP? What level of information does the average classroom curriculum present?

    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 7,207
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 7,207
    Originally Posted by Just ducky
    We often are so focused on the state test for all that we do and the fact that was brought out at yesterday's conference on ID was that 66% of the high ability kids do not get a PASS+( the highest level) on the Language Arts section and 33% do not have that achievement on the math portion of the ISTEP+.

    Hi JD!
    This caught my eye. I wonder what is going on!
    a) too bored to do well at age-mate level?
    b) how are high ability kids defined?
    c) really bad test?
    d) really poor preperation?

    How do your 4th graders do? I'll bet that proper motivation really makes a difference.

    In the long run, clustering, and teaching the teachers how to pretest and compact will help lots of kids - looks like you will be the coach to inspire the teachers. Exciting challenges ahead!

    ((Although I'm pretty sure that your talents would be best used in that mini-school or afterschool program.))

    Smiles,
    Grinity


    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com
    Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

    Moderated by  M-Moderator, Mark D. 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Testing with accommodations
    by aeh - 03/27/24 01:58 PM
    Quotations that resonate with gifted people
    by indigo - 03/27/24 12:38 PM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 03/23/24 06:11 PM
    California Tries to Close the Gap in Math
    by thx1138 - 03/22/24 03:43 AM
    Gifted kids in Illinois. Recommendations?
    by indigo - 03/20/24 05:41 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5