Hello all -

I am new to this forum. I have a 13YO that has tested into GATE twice now, but has not attended for two reasons 1) the school felt he was not emotionally mature enough and 2) his grades started slipping greatly shortly after being identified so they disqualified him the 2nd time he was identified. Unfortunately, I accepted this, thinking that the schools really wanted what was best for my child. From K-5th grade my son was an 'A' student, but he socially did not fit in. Starting in 5th grade (he was identified in 4th), he started dumbing himself down in an attempt to fit in. Not until 7th grade did he get what he wanted. He fit in, but he barely passes his standard classes.

Now I have an 8th grader that may not make it into 9th grade simply due to lack of effort. He puts in limited effort in the classroom and virtually none at home (regardless of the constant goading on my part). He says it all 'bores him' so why bother. He now has what he really wants. He is wildly popular and that is good enough for him...until he was told yesterday that he may not be allowed to go to 9th grade.

The school is telling me that it might be best to let him stay behind, as he is the youngest person in his grade anyhow. However, I don't agree - I think it may do more damage than good. I have followed what the schools have suggested for years now and what I am left with is a bright child that is embarrassed to be so and runs in the opposite direction. If I agree to hold him back, he will loose connection with what little challenge he was receiving (let alone the social stigma) and will either retreat into a shell or act out in ways that are the nightmares of all parents. If I pursue his attending High School next year, he will most likely be put in remedial classes due to his poor performance over the last few years. These will bore him and we will have an uphill battle to fight just to get him to get his diploma.

I am reaching out to this forum to see if anyone has ideas as to how to work with the school to at least ensure that he get into 9th grade with standard classes along with AP Math and Science (his strong suits) so that there is some challenge available to him. Is there anything in the summer that I might be able to do like an extended course at the university - something to spark him - somewhere where his peers are not present. Are there programs for gifted children outside of school so that I can get him involved with - children that are truly his peers - where he is not ridiculed for being smart.

Is it too late for him to apply to the Think Summer Institute? If not them, then perhaps Summer Institute for Gifted overnight camp?

I think that getting him out of his social environment sounds like a terrrific idea.

I would check around and see if there are any psychologist who serve as educational consultants to the school that the school "likes." I would guess that you're going to need a "Professional" of some kind to go to bat for you at these meetings.

Another alternative is community college courses. Online college courses work for some.

You're in a pickle, so I'm sending you ((hugs))
Take care -
Trinity

What are your backup plans? Have you considersed private school? Homeschooling? You'll be a better negotiator if you have some alternatives that you can live with.

I suspect my son would have been in that situation if we had stuck with traditional schooling. He was the youngest in the grade (we put him in private to get around the age cutoff), and ya know what -- no one suggested he was too young for it.

Immaturity issues can actually stem from him being bored, being forced to "socialize" (ha!) with kids who really aren't thinking about many of the things he is.

Even the private school my son attended most of his schooled years (we started homeschooling after 5th grade) wasn't the ideal setting for him. He learned to not focus (getting the work done wasn't a rewarding experience, and his thoughts were more interesting than the work - I truly wish I had homeschooled sooner!). We have, after 4 years, finally gotten past a lot of the issues we had that I think developed out of being under-engaged in school.

I agree w/ Trinity, that getting him into a different social environment is important.

Ceceria -
how are things going?
What is you thought process?
What are your summer plans?

I recently read that the definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

Do you think that applies here?

((hugs))
Trinity

Wow, your story is very similar to mine. I posted this message in another forum just 30 minutes ago...

All of the education books and classes and research that I have done in order to earn two masters degrees in education have done very little to help my son do well. Also, I am convinced that our education system has failed in the education of this very unique child.

My son is 13. He is 2.5 standard deviations above the norm and classified as gifted, and also identified as talented in theater. He is also ADD. For the past 3 years, this wonderful child has steadily plunged into the abyss of underachievement. I have tried everything reasonable. I have researched. Nothing has worked, and I fear that the future will not be any better. I am in an administrative position in a public high school and have staunchly supported our public school system. However, I found it necessary to remove my child from the public middle school and enroll him in a private school beginning next week. I believe that the teachers have failed to reach my son, refused to maintain weekly contact with me, and have treated him with disdain. I am disappointed, disillusioned and on the verge of giving up. What else can I do? I have never spoken ill of the teachers or school in my son's presence. I have researched, consulted doctors, colleagues, friends and family. I used the charts, motivation strategies and even punishment. (he has no access to television - except as family activity, video games, computer games etc..) I see his potential fading as he digs deeper into the pit of laziness and apathy.

Hi Mabay, I feel for you... my son is almost 8 and I worry that we may be dealing with similar issues in years to come. He is gifted but inconsistent in his achievement level. It depends on how much effort he feels like putting forth on a particular day. I worry that ADD may be a factor, too, but am not sure yet.

What is your son's current grade? When did you start to notice his decline in achievement, and did it have to do with a transition time (such as starting middle school)?

How is his ADD being treated?

What does he say about school and grades, and about switching to private school? What are his interests? Is there anything he is passionate about?

I just started reading a book that may interest you. It is The Myth of Laziness by Mel Levine. I am only a few chapters into it so cannot give a very informed opinion yet, but what I've read so far is quite interesting.

GG

I've read Myth of Laziness, and don't like it near as much as "A mind at a time," probably because he seems to have moved onto blaming certian children for not making use of their opportunities.

Hi Mabay,
What are things like for your son socially? Does he participate in Drama? How does he fit on the Trinity Scale, (don't panic, I just made it up?
In his academic environment, are his skills age level or age level plus what?
Is his knowledge base age level or age level plus what?
Is his Critical Thinking at age level or age level plus what?

Have you explored Grade acceleration at the school or at the new school?

Does he have friends? From where? Does he get to hang out sometimes with other HG/PG kids?

Good to have you here with us!
Love and More Love,
Trinity

My son is currently in the 8th grade. We noticed his skills decline in 5th grade. (coincidentally, this coincides with his move to public school to take part in gifted classes.) One of his teachers upset him so much that he developed a habit of picking at his arms. For two years his arms looked like he had chicken pox, which I have had to address with the school nurse more than once.

I should have put him back in private school right then, but I just couldn't give up on the system and on the g/t program.

He was taking concerta. I have taken him off all meds for now. I have noticed improved humor and his arms have healed...he no longer picks unless he is bored and a captive audience. I think the meds helped him focus and am considering the use again but I am still on the fence, as the meds have eaten away at his social and emotional development. What does he say? He likes drama, he plays trumpet, loves to watch Animal Planet and he likes to discuss video game strategies with his friends. I think I will get that book you are reading. Thanks so much for your response. This is scary stuff and it helps to know that I don't have to deal with this alone.

I am so tired of people blaming children for things that they have no control over.

Trinity,
My son is immature socially, and although he has always been a bit immature, I believe the concerta (for ADD) has stunted his emotional and social development. I have taken him off the meds for the past 6 weeks and have seen a small improvement in his socio-emotional growth but only time and patience will tell.

He participates in Drama, however the move to private school removes the required provision of theater resource from his schedule. I am looking into alternatives. His skill level was higher than grade level at one time, but has deteriorated, as has his knowledge base. His Critical thinking remains higher, but I see that falling as well...just more slowly.

I have not explored grade acceleration because I am considering holding him back due to delayed social/emotional growth.

He has few friends, none close enough to call the house...which greatly concerns me. I am really worried. This is my 4th child, the only one left living at home, and the apple of my eye. He is smart, funny, and has an eye for the ironic. When he was three, (I was wearing pig-tails for spirit day at the school where I taught) this little boy told me that my hair was an abomination. I asked him what that meant, and he stated quite clearly that it was something he didn't like! I knew he was smarter than usual, but this blew me away! My older three were of slightly above-average intelligence and markedly different from birth than my last child.

Does he hang out with other hg kids? Yes, at school during lunch. He does not make any effort to do so on his home-time. He is quite concerned that most kids at his school are nowhere near like him, and he really wants to find friends that he has more in common with. (He likes Monty Python movies but his friends at school don't know what that is, nor do they want to)

So, in a nutshell, that is the story.
Thanks for the reply.

Have you had your son do a Myers-Briggs personality inventory? It really sounds like he might be an **I**. I'm an I (INFP) and I am a bit like your son. I do fine socially such as at church, with the regular workers in the grocery stores, around the neighborhood as needed, etc. However, I have a VERY long recharge time and need a lot of alone time, during which I am content to putter about doing my own thing. It doesn't mean I am shy or uncaring;rather, I tend to care a bit too much and as such need time to deal with the social input before I can surge into it again.

There are lots of things you can find out about yourself and your kids with the MB...or ENNEAGRAM.

If he is an I then don't worry about the tendency towards down time. jmo

I'm wondering if he is a bit of a perfectionist, too??

I have to laugh because I just got a stack of books from Barnes and Noble two days ago that are based on the 16 personality types! (1995, was an INFP myself...now am ENTP) I though this might help me to find a way to support my son in ways that are best for him...not what I think is best for him.

Perfectionist? Of course, but if he gets it wrong, he gives up. or doesn't try his best.

Hi Mabay.

My son is currently in 5th and like GG, this is just the sort of thing I worry about! He has had a few teachers so far that have treated him with distain (same as your son). At the young age of 7-8 in third grade, he fully realized that some adults were spiteful and manipulative. He would relay the most recent snide comments that he received from his teacher to us on a daily basis.

I don’t know how things would be for him now if we didn’t help him decompress and in many cases validate his impressions of what was said/done. We require him to keep his opinions and complaints on a “professional” level (good training) and we do the same. Ex. Her exclusion of our son during a third grade party due to failure to meet the extremely high AR reading goal (that he set for himself) was both illogical and undeserved since although he missed his own GOAL, he far exceeded the average number of points earned by others.

You stated that you do not speak poorly about teachers in your son’s presence. I wonder whether if you validated his impressions (without getting nasty of course) it would help him understand that in many cases it’s not him, but the adult that has some issues or poor judgment, ect..
-I wish my parents had done this with me. I was labeled as an underachiever beginning in junior high. My sixth grade teacher was very verbally abusive and I was a primary target. I didn’t tell my parents what she said to me for fear they would side with her. She was fired two years after I left the school.

This may be only one facet in a very complex situation, but I thought it might help.

P.S. I'm situational an I or E, but very strongly NTP!

Good Move Mabay!
((I'm also an ENTP - married to an ISFJ, LOL!))
I'll also reccomend the "parenting self-help book" Five Loe Languages of Children http://www.amazon.com/Five-Love-Languages-Children/dp/1881273652
simplistic by worth a try -

Can you son's private school try accelerating him in one subject? Have you had your son tested for IQ, talent search or Woodcack Johnson Acievement levels? Did the private school do anytesting? I'm sceptical of "social immaturity." Maturity means so many different things to so many different people. Yes I have heard that ADHD tends to go along with less maturity, but what exactly are the school's complaints? Is he hitting? Crying often? Disrupting the classroom in some way? If you kid is going to feel like a Martian socially (I did, it's not pleasant, but you learn some important lessons that way.) then he may as well be in a situation where he is challenged academically.

If you haven't read "Re-forming Gifted education" by Karen Rogers it's worth a read - just to see what all the wide variety of options are.

Hugs and Best Wishes
Trinity

Here's a link to a good website with interesting articles: http://www.mcgt.net/Articles/how_can_i_support_my_gifted_chil.html

Wow...I am moved at the lovely responses and helpful ideas you all are sending me..and anyone who reads this! First, I am an assistant principal at a public high school in the same district as my son's previous school. I have worked very hard to separate my job from my son's education. Which, I might add, has made interacting with his teachers more difficult than normal. I thought it would be the height of unprofessionalism to criticise the teachers in front of my son. He did come home from his new (private) school yesterday, and today with a completely changed countenance. Instead of hunched shoulders, downcast "I don't care" look, he was standing straight and smiling. I joked with him about the girls in his class and asked if they were pretty (he is one of three boys in a class of 18) he told me that the girls were probably a little prettier at his new school, but what makes a big difference is that they are WAY prettier on the inside! Wow. I wonder about what is happening in our culture that an entire generation of public school students in this school district has become ugly inside. Why are the private school children so much nicer? What am I going to do about this as a public school administrator? This whole thing really makes me sad.

UPDATE:
Within the first week, my son showed a marked improvement in disposition. After 2 weeks, his focus improved slightly. I enlisted the help of a counselor, who suggested behavior inventories based on these attributes: Attention, Compliance, Completion and Quality. Each teacher rates his performance and returns the form to me each week. Also suggested was filming his homework sessions so that he can see and understand how he floats off task. He is back on a low dose of medication which has helped even more with his focus. I see a light at the end of the tunnel, and through therapy, love and behavior awareness, I know that my son will be able to learn and use the tools he needs to succeed academically.

Mabay, thanks for posting the update. I have been wondering what happened with your son, and I'm so happy to hear that things are looking up for him. Kudos to you for finding solutions for him!
I bet all his life he'll remember how you stepped up and went to bat for him, changing schools and everything else you've done to get him into a better academic situation.

Times like this can be so empowering for our children. I've been aware of this in my own family recently--specifically, how the act of changing schools 3 weeks into the year for DD5 has been a positive example for my older two children, teaching them not to just "put up with" a bad situation... that it's okay to "fight" for what we believe in, and how to find alternative solutions for problems that at first may seem impossible.

So again, kudos to you!

GG

Hi Mabay,
I'm so glad to hear that your son is feeling more himself! ((big warm smile!))
There will always be some bumps in the road, but it really helps to actually be on a road, and not in a ditch! ((wink))

Love and More Love,
Trinity