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    #80263 - 07/13/10 07:54 AM Re: Computer based training (CBT) [Re: Katelyn'sM om]
    no5no5 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/02/09
    Posts: 529
    Originally Posted By: Katelyn'sM om
    At two it really isn't important for them to be taught this, but do I think you have destroyed his creativity by doing so? No, of course not and from your post I get the impression that they delivered that message in an aggressive manner. Sorry you had to deal with that.


    Actually, I thought we were pretty nice about it (though not everyone was, those who weren't were not the unschooly ones). Sorry you've been worrying about it, hablame. Your son seems like a delightful, healthy child from what I've heard of him...and I'm not sure why you want more than that.

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    #80264 - 07/13/10 07:56 AM Re: Computer based training (CBT) [Re: CFK]
    no5no5 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/02/09
    Posts: 529
    Originally Posted By: CFK
    Originally Posted By: Dandy
    So I'm guessing that Turkish coloring books are particularly bad?


    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!





    LOL. Normally we're not into coloring books here (DD is totally uninterested in them), but a TURKISH coloring book might be an exception. Especially if it will teach my child to dance & sing. Gosh, that still cracks me up. laugh

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    #80267 - 07/13/10 08:05 AM Re: Computer based training (CBT) [Re: Iucounu]
    Lori H. Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/26/07
    Posts: 982
    My son has learned so much from Youtube videos and so have I, but I was so wrong when I thought I would get a break when my son discovered how easy it was to find his own answers without asking me. Those endless questions turned into all day "Mom, you have to see this!" But then I did tell him we would be co-learners since there are so many things I didn't learn in school or if I learned them, I have forgotten. Some of it, I realize now, was "surface learning" only, just enough for me to do well on the test and then forgotten. My son not only doesn't forget but he constantly builds on prior knowledge and connects it to other subjects. Wikipedia and Youtube make learning so much easier.

    As wonderful as CBT is, my son really likes to learn and play (video games) in co-op mode if he gets the chance.

    He has had an electric guitar for months now and didn't get around to teaching himself how to play, but is very eager to take lessons from an older friend. There is no way he could learn what he is learning in musical theater on the internet even though he does watch Youtube performances of the songs he is learning. I think he would still have to have that interaction with other performers to really learn what he needs to know to do well. He needs that positive feedback from the other performers to fine tune his skills.

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    #80272 - 07/13/10 09:44 AM Re: Computer based training (CBT) [Re: Lori H.]
    La Texican Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/10/10
    Posts: 1777
    Loc: South Texas
    Clay's right. It only matters what it is and who made it. "Multiply this!" hip hop songs will get the multiplication facts stuck in your head just as good as filling in the multiplication chart every day for two weeks. Watching Nova will spark your imagination of the endless possibility and wonders of this world. Starfall.com's "About Me" wordshapes CBT does the same thing as the wordshape cut and paste worksheets used in school I would think. Actually my neighbor said her sons teacher told him to use starfall to reinforce what they were learning in class that he wasn't getting.
    The few things you can't get from a computer would be handwriting, which is reportedly important for balancing the two hemispheres of the brain. Co-operation and teamwork. A software program can teach you the right answer and how to get there with self-correcting answers. Really you'd be missing the other students thought processes from the class, but you could see every known opinion in the world.
    Then again I'm basing these impressions on stuff I've read online smile
    _________________________
    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar

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    #80541 - 07/16/10 03:58 PM Re: Computer based training (CBT) [Re: La Texican]
    La Texican Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/10/10
    Posts: 1777
    Loc: South Texas
    Originally Posted By: PoppaRex

    But what you bring up is really something that I am trying to wrap my head around and discussed somewhat in the CBT thread. We, as a nation, built the interstate highway system that opened this country to become much of what it is today. It seems building a national educational system would do the same. Imagine any child able to access any level of education from wherever they are! Whether they get online from school or from home if homeschooled, or through the library in cases like you describe… well, it just makes sense to me.

    Oh.  I thought you meant in general and hypothetically and were quiestioning the effectiveness of CBT programs available at the present moment.  You wanna build the "Ender's Game" e-school, or the Jetson's private computer tutor. Let's see... That would take the four best things from Grinity's DI school find- solid foundational teachings for basic skills, frequent functional evaluation tests, and acceleration or remediation, and a noted lack of pointless busywork.  You'd couple that with an idea I think I saw Kriston quoted as saying in the 2010-2011 (?) Kindy & 1st grade, or first and second.  (too many drugs in the 1960's, I apologize.). I only saw the quote not the post because I was just skimming the thread to relax after the boy went to sleep.  But the idea was a homeschool co-op where the classes were treated like college courses in that you just took whatever you needed from the course menu.  So nationalize it and put it online.  Then you would blend it with my NCLB thread core standards to make sure everybody's course selection met the bare minimum core standards for their functional level in each subject.
    Then you would have a spreadsheet of all the school-aged kids in the census.  You would have 1 column for each of the core standards subjects required by law.  Parents could select from an exhaustive unabridged list of cirriculum publishers for each subject that meets the core standard requirements of their latest functional evaluation for that subject, or for a single skill remediation program for that subject if the most recent evaluation warrants.  There would be no need for the school, the parents, or any online agency to sign off on the fact that the student took the course, the evaluations will tell.  But you could add an extra column for that purpose just to make it look official. 
    Now for the financing.  The church has been whining for years about establishing a federal voucher system where each child takes a coupon for whatever the amount the public school earns per head in it's classroom and then they take their little coupon to the private school of their parents choice and that makes private school affordable to anyone who wants in it in theory.  But that means taxing the unwilling public to pay for religious education as well.  But that's a whole different debate.  Hey, wait.  They could make the vouchers for each credit rather than for each student.  Then they could say that the cirriculum covered can not contain religious material and does not meet core standards.  Uh, nevermind.  I don't know how you'd level the playing field financially and equitably for every child and family.  Also you would scare the Big Brother crowd into fearing that the system will enforce this program on every child and not just those families that want to participate in the society the rest of us are cultivating.  Oh.  And I don't know how the unschoolers would like the evaluations and expectations because it wouldn't allow for asynchronous imterests in the present moment, even though it would be tailored to each child's individual develpment so much better than things are now.  Maybe flexibility in how you balance the course load could accomidate them.  Just say you have to choose so many credits at one time, even if it's unbalanced, and you have to eventually choose all of the core subjects sometime in this decade.  And you're not going to get the Christians to co-operate unless you pay for their agenda.  They won't participate, they'll bargain.  Aye, maybe I'm just too cynical.  There has to be a compromise.  We'll pay for the Abeka reading cirriculum even though it's religious, but let your church pay for the bible study and no it doesn't count as a credit.
    The core standards board is asking for feedback on what we should expect as a nation from our children.  I'm keeping it on the back burner of my mind, keeping in mind that they say "grade" and mean "age".  I'm trying to think of how to incorporate Waldorf, Montessori, unschool idealism, fast track yuppie ivy league preschools, and those poor kids in New Oreleans and take all these different philosophies of healthy age-appropriate development and expectations and combine them into one set of universal core standards.  It would help if parents representing these philosphies could chime in on that thread and we could contribute to the nationwide school standards they're writing at this moment.
    My posts are always too long when I think about anything.  Embarrasing.  
    _________________________
    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar

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    #80647 - 07/20/10 05:43 AM Re: Computer based training (CBT) [Re: La Texican]
    PoppaRex Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 06/09/10
    Posts: 44
    A link to your thread?

    Excellent thoughts. I like the idea of cirriculum publishers. Meet some guidelines of content and it can be offered online via the "United Network for Controlled Learning Environments via Smart Advancement Methodology) or UNCLE SAM! *grin*

    Standards for grade /age seem moot and maybe it's replaced by "tracks" - a set of standards that pertain to a job group, licensure or dicipline. I suppose you could you could use standards so that if you fail to meet some level (NCLB) you qualify to go to intensive teaching school based on the traditional model.

    Funding is just a matter of priorities. At some point we need to stop funding pork and get serious about the things that matter. Less libraries and museums deicated to the memory of shyster politicians IMHO.


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    #80651 - 07/20/10 07:01 AM Re: Computer based training (CBT) [Re: PoppaRex]
    La Texican Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/10/10
    Posts: 1777
    Loc: South Texas
    http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/B....html#Post80016
    Just posted it as a current events update from the church of what's happening now. This is, according to the google trail, the company that is most likely going to determine grade level standards for the country.

    I do like imaginary projects also, so tell me what you'd like to accomplish with your centralized CBT program and we'll brainstorm and flesh out more of the working details. I like the "carreer tract" only as long as it's flexible enough for the student to change their minds up to the last minute. I'll say grade level as a point of reference even though with functional evaluations grade would not be tied to age and the system wouldn't assume the student is working at the same grade level across the board.

    I guess you're saying this system would make it easier for parents to patchwork a education tailored to their child with one class in a public school and one class online and one class at a private school. Unless you're asking for more clear national school standards. Or maybe you're asking for more efficient tracking of individual students education? What do you want man? I can't read your mind.
    _________________________
    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar

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    #80661 - 07/20/10 09:02 AM Re: Computer based training (CBT) [Re: La Texican]
    PoppaRex Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 06/09/10
    Posts: 44
    Quote:
    I like the "carreer tract" only as long as it's flexible enough for the student to change their minds up to the last minute.


    The secret is there is no "last minute" anything. No deadline to finishing. No age groups. The key is determining which componants apply to which track(s). You are not limited to a track. Complete all the associated componants, voila! you are a professional! Add a few more for track B and viola! you are multidimensional!. The requirements toward a career track might be that you pass some final exam based on the standards as set forth within the track, which would enforce that outside institutions conform to the national standards even if they don't like the system itself.

    Learning is lifelong and open to anyone with access. Not just a highway to learning but a SUPER-highway. NCLB is moot cause we all have access to everything!

    Yes, I am saying national standards make sense. Sure, there's the battle over states controlling what 'educated' means but it's well worth defining. I know that at the moment states may have various requirements as to what is required to be a teacher. They have completetly different requirements form other states, and at other times they may require the same knowledge but set different proficiencies. It's a mish-mash.

    I am asking for all of it - this is thinking BIG after all.

    Yes, you could access this wherever. Your gifted child can sit in the lab and proceed at his or her whim. The normal child can proceed at the normal pace but is still required to use the CBT for assessment. The homeschooled child... ditto.




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    #80666 - 07/20/10 10:03 AM Re: Computer based training (CBT) [Re: PoppaRex]
    La Texican Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/10/10
    Posts: 1777
    Loc: South Texas
    Well there kind of is national standards with the Taks or Cat or whatever the heck it is the end of year test, but it's crappy standards promoting content over skill from what I can see. I think that's what everybody's complaining about, having to drill facts until they're memorized for the test instead of teaching basic foundational skills (which would be harder to test without showing just how much better some students are doing than others).
    Thanks for talking to me it helped me clarify and edit my thread for better clarity. I love the idea of continuing education available even to the retired grandpa who wants to learn a new carreer path. It doesn't fit humanity's current business model. Even communism which is supposedly different from capitalism is a business model, treating the country like a business and the people like employees there just to do a job and that's it. What you're describing is a sci-fi fantasy utopia like Star Trek the next Generation where humanity has evolved from surviving to exploring. Good luck with that. I mean there's some nerds working on it, that's what the open access college files on the Internet is trying to start. But it's too little and too sparse. Maybe if free and appropriate public education was offered as an opportunity rather than a requirement in a very unschooly nation, maybe the world would be curious enough to educate themselves.
    _________________________
    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar

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    #80672 - 07/20/10 11:01 AM Re: Computer based training (CBT) [Re: La Texican]
    PoppaRex Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 06/09/10
    Posts: 44
    Quote:
    It doesn't fit humanity's current business model.

    which is why i picked up on your suggestion of content publishers as a method of keeping capitalism's paws involved.

    Doesn't have to be free... just available. Access to the network, setting of standards etc. would be public service. Content would be greed.. um.. er... a business commodity.


    BTW, the problem i see with a business model is that really once the content is built there's not really any expansion until new knowledge is gained. The only outlet for new sales (other than population growth) is to make a new product that is more complex and bloated - just look at the evolution of any software development.


    Edited by PoppaRex (07/20/10 11:05 AM)

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