Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Recommended Resources Any suggestions for math?

Hi all! I know I'm always singing the praises of Singapore Math for home/afterschooling, but...

As we finish up Singapore book 2B, DS6 is bored with math. Frankly, so am I. It's been so easy, so basic, so concrete that we've been doing a unit per day (so that's doing a semester's worth of work in about 9 days!). There's just not enough actual THINKING. I looked through 3A, and it seems like more of the same stuff we did in 2B, even though Singapore is supposed to be MUCH better than most about not spiraling through the same curriculum over and over. But if you can add and subtract 3-digit numbers, then adding and subtracting 4-digit numbers is not exactly a challenge for an HG+ kid...and that's what's coming up. The whole 3A book, actually, seems pretty <meh> that way.

So, my question:

What would you do to jazz up math for this kid?

Limiting factors:
DS6 has learned how to multiply, but at the advice of MANY people who should know, including 2 different psychologists (not to mention my own intuition on the subject!), I'm not pushing him to memorize the multiplication tables yet. We worked on it a little, and it just made him hate math time. He'll get there when he gets there, and I'm okay with that...

Also, I am not a math person. I took all the way through college calculus, but it was definitely something I did because I had to. I do not love math. I do not want to pass on my blase'-ness to my son.

What I'm thinking/doing so far:
I'm getting my hands on the British Scholastic book club's series called "Murderous Maths," and I'm hoping those will form a lesson plan or two for us. They're things like codes, fractions, averages, trig, formulas, etc., and they're presented in a fun way, so I'm hoping they will appeal to him.

I'm also checking out every book on geometry that I can, since that seems to be the math that most fires him up. I may even go so far as teaching him how to do proofs, since he loves rule-based stuff. (If proofs are a flop, it will be a one-time experiment and we'll move on...but it seems worth a try.)

Any other suggestions for teaching a very bright, very verbal 6.5yo some off-road math?

Any topics in math that you think might be winners?

Other curriculum ideas are welcome, though I probably won't go with a Saxon/Kumon/etc. style program, since I am generally very happy with Singapore. We just need to jazz it up a little for a while.

I think what I'm really looking for is something more conceptual. I feel like 3A is (and 2B was!) just too concrete for the kid. I want some higher-level thinking skills in action, as I think that's what he's craving.

Thanks, everyone! I appreciate any help you can offer!

Hi Krison,

DD7 just tried a free trial from Aleks math. I actually became aware of the website through this forum. It's an online self adjusting math program that she can do herself.
We just recieved an e-mail to try it for one month for free as a result of utilizing the free 48 hour trial. We will take adavantage of this as I was ready to start paying for it anyway.

If you are interested in checking it out you can go to Aleks.com and look for the free trial.

Incog

I know what you mean. Looking through the next few Singapore math books it's obvious that DS can already do quite a lot from the next few levels. I kind of like it DS is at 3A as well, I think there are only one thing he doesn't know in 2B are gallons, pint, ... one of these days we will look at it. The really new thing in 3A is multiplication of big numbers such as 287*7 and long division. If your son doesn't know the table than taking break from Singapore sounds like a good idea, otherwise skip things he can obviously do or let him choose what he wants to do (that's what we do, we leave books of different levels lying around he is free to do what he wants or nothing if that's his choice).

This week I got Primary Grade Challenge Math by Edward Zaccaro and it looks like a good book. There are things my son knows really well, but there are a few concepts which will be new to him. Level 4 problems look pretty nice, challenging, but doable.

Life of Fred Fractions by Stanley Schmidt is a nice funny book. Lots of multiplication and division though, but you can always help your son with that and worry about the concepts only.

Thanks for the comments! I appreciate the help!

'Neato: Is Aleks really any different than Singapore, aside from the fact that it's online?

I know other people using it who love it, but I'm not convinced that it's really going to be any more conceptual. I trust you though, so if you think it's more conceptual, I'm willing to give it a try! Thank you!

LMom: I was thinking about Life of Fred. I checked out their website and everything, but it didn't seem any more conceptual, just more verbal. What do you think? We really do need more ideas, not just more words.

I haven't heard of the Zaccaro book, but I'll look into it. Thanks!

***

Another question: Would I be a bad teacher if I let DS use a calculator some of the time (not all) so that we can move on to more challenging problems? "Yes, you'd be bad" is a valid answer.

I think I'll give DS6 the Singapore placement test for 3A. If he knows it all already, we'll just skip it. If he knows most of it, I'll teach just what he misses on the test and nothing else. And so on with each placement test until we get to one that he really needs. I guess I'm looking for those gaps...

Tonight at dinner, DH--who is an engineer--and I sat trying to think of typical elementary school math concepts that DS hasn't been exposed to yet, and we came up with a precious few. I'm now checking online as I write this to add to the list, and I see that he needs to know multiplying and dividing fractions (we've covered adding and subtracting them and finding a common denominator), long division, multi-place multiplication problems, the more complex geometry (like figuring the area and circumference of a circle [though he knows Pi r squared, the Pythagorean theorem, and some of the other common geometric formulas aleady], rays, measuring angles, etc.), probability, negative numbers (though he's picked up some of this already), X/Y coordinates, and we could do some computer programming. But without knowing hs times tables, some of this is going to be hard to do.

Hmmm, now that I've written that, I'm thinking we should do probability, geometry, X/Y graphing, negative numbers and computers. Huh. That might constitute the rest of our year now that I think about it...

...Or it might be a week's worth of work if we go through it as fast as we've been ripping through Singapore. I really am trying to go "deeper, not faster," but we seem to be failing that.

*Concerned and tired sigh*

Anyway, thanks for indulging my confused ramblings/musings! It's helping me a ton to have your thoughts and comments!

K-

I remember that we enjoyed "the adventures of Penrose the Mathematical Cat" at your son's age. I think there were a lot of concepts and projects in there. We passed the book on to a friend so I can't check.

Thanks, acs. I'll check on it!

I think you may like the Zaccaro book. It covers lots of different concepts and you can do whatever your son is interested in. It covers probability, negative number, square roots, circumference and area, decimals, logic, percents, fractions, ... It has no geometry though. It's word problem oriented and has 4 levels of difficulty.

Fred is funny. It's a nice reading and you get to laugh a lot. It introduces new concepts but it may be going little too fast. You know not really enough practice.

You could also get the next few Singapore books and do whatever part he is interested in. Like I said DS does what he wants to and once I think he knows everything from a given level (regardless of what he did or didn't do in the workbooks) I give him the placement test just to make sure. You could also try the Singapore Challenging problems.

I think you can let your son use the calculator. Concepts are much more interesting than pure counting. Let's face it how many adults really use long division? Of course he will have to learn it one day but it shouldn't keep him from enjoying the more interesting topics. We usually help our son to do the calculations on the paper, sometimes it's us writing it down and commenting on how it's done and asking him simple questions. That way he is exposed to it and will learn it when he is ready. I think it worked quite well for the multi digit multiplication, long division will probably take more time.

This was my thinking exactly. Plus, as visual as DS6 is, he might actually learn the multiplication by accident if he sees the calculator spit out the same answers to the problems each time. That would be ideal.

I just don't want to handicap him, to make him unable to do the calculations when he needs to learn it, you know? I don't think that would happen, but I'm certainly no expert on this!

The Zaccaro sounds good.

We do use Singapore "Challenging Word Problems" and the "Intensive Workbook." They help slow things down a bit. But he's still pretty bored with it all if he's not learning new concepts, which seems like it defeats the purpose of home schooling!

Gratefully,

K-

We have a fair sized library of narrative style math books. My kids have always tested way out there conceptually and I give credit to the math books they have read for fun. I also like the Zaccaro book, though we only have experience with the next level book, I have heard nothing but good reviews of the primary book.

Here are some books that DS might enjoy: http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art28465.asp

and here is my review of Life of Fred: http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art25135.asp

BTW, my kids have gone back and forth between Singapore and several other programs because they seem to do well with a little novelty. It's ok to play around with different programs and even take a break from formal studies for a time. I don't like to leave math out altogether, but there are many ways to incorporate it into the day without workbook or problem sets.

hth-

Kriston,

I've been curious about the Johns Hopkins CTY math series or Stanford EPGY for elementary students. JHU at least is bright and fun looking.

Let me know what you end up finding. My DS6 is doing 4th grade math at school, but I'm not sure how much is being covered. They have ALEKS at school, but again, I'm not sure how often he does it.

Cym-

My ds did EPGY grade 3/4 at age six, after completing Singapore 3. It was a good program, but very buggy, and the interface was old and not at all flashy. I don't know if it has been updated in the last few years. Cost may be an issue with both CTY and EPGY, neither one comes cheap!

hth-

We've been using Time4Learning for my DS5. It costs $20 a month, is online and he can work at his own pace. He is currently finishing up 2nd grade math and although most of the concepts are review he is able to just take the tests on the stuff and knows and it marks the lessons as mastered. For the same price you also get a language arts curriculum as well as a brief social studies and science curriculum. We only use the math right now for enrichment. The lessons are animated and very easy to follow.

I am sure when DS gets older we will need something else but for now Time4Learning is just enough enrichment at a very affordable price.

What are his interests? Maybe you could incorporate math lessons into other lessons that pique his interests. How about having him help you cook, but you need his help to double or halve recipes? Or do some studies on ancient Rome and learn Roman numerals and play around with how a young Roman scholar would have calculated numbers?

DS6 is all about Transformers. He's curious about everything and enjoys engineering, history, science, any fiction and foreign languages, but he's one of those obsessive kids for whom all else pales beside his one true love, and his whole world revolves around that obsession. In his short life, he's gone through obsessions with cars, construction vehicles, and then NASCAR, spending over a year obsessing about each in turn. Now it's Transformers. He draws them, writes and illustrates lengthy books detailing their battles, invents new ones with crazy names, plays with the figures, builds his own out of other toys and tangram pieces, dreams about them...

I must admit that I'm at a loss about how to incorporate Transformers smoothly into math class. We have every Transformer book checked out of the library for his reading time and he draws them for his art classes. Short of doing a segment on robotics (which I don't think I'm equipped to do!), I don't know how we can do much with Transformers in math.

Any thoughts or ideas? I'm WIDE open to suggestions!

P.S. We already did a segment on Roman numerals before we got our first Singapore books. We also talked about Greek letters and how they're used in math (Pi, Sigma, etc.) because of his foreign language interest. Good thought, though! Thanks! Please keep them coming!

Any thoughts on whether EPGY or Aleks is better? I know Aleks is a LOT cheaper, so I'm certainly leaning that direction. What do you think, Lorel? Have you used Aleks, too, or just EPGY and CTY?

As promised, I'm also pretesting with the Singapore placement tests. He's partway through the 3A test today, and having no trouble with anything but the long division (as I expected, since he's had zero exposure to that). Everything else so far has been just a slightly longer version of what he's already done, and it has been easy.

Any other thoughts on letting him use a calculator for the multiplication? I'm very interested in your opinions!

I'd use Transformers to practice measuring and ratios. How do they compare to his proportions? Foot to leg, hand to arm, head to foot to hand. Y'know like if Barbie were a real woman, she have size 2 shoes and size DD....?

If he was going to build a life size transformer or draw on on paper, how big would it's arms be, how broad of chest.

Then there is the buying and selling. If there are antique transformers on EBAY, how many years would he have to save them to sell at a big profit, what rate of increase? When were Transformers first popular? How many generations of T's have there been? How many different products have been sold?

((gasp))
Grin,
Grinity

I like it. We haven't done ratios.

However, I think Barbie would have more like double QQs, wouldn't she?

Hi Kriston,

I looked into EPGY quite extensively. I didn't find them flexible at "accelerating" within their program. For example, since DD7 is in 2nd grade they wanted her to start there and did not seem flexible to start her at third or above. They told me their course was already accelerated and she should be fine in her grade. I looked at their demo and wasn't impressed that she would be challenged there.
Aleks seems a little more intuitive to me. You can start your child at any level you want. They do an auto assessment and derive a "pie" of subjects for your child. He/she can choose which subject they want to work on at anytime. They are auto assessed every 7 work hours or something like that, however, you may move your child ahead at any time for any reason. It may not be a fit for your situation, but if you want to look into it, you have nothing to lose by the free trial. You don't have to give credit card info or anything, you just log in to the free trial and they give you a temp. password.

I'm all for these awesome and creative ideas to work math into everyday situations, I'm just not the math person and feel I would be missing things. After looking at the Aleks program, I saw things in level 3 I hadn't thought of going over with her and they definately aren't doing those things at school.
My husband is the finance MBA, but he's been working so much, he doesn't have the time to meet her interest level, so we are giving Aleks a try.

Good luck with whatever you do!

Incog

Thanks, 'Neato. I'm SERIOUSLY considering Aleks. DH and I discussed it at lunch, and he's on board. I just have to decide what I think will work best for us at this juncture. My concern with Aleks is that DS is still going to be expected to know the times tables. I don't want to run into this same problem with Aleks that we had with Singapore, since aside from this little roadblock of our own making, we've been happy with Singapore.

Anyway, I appreciate the feedback a whole gob!

Hey, 'Neato, what do you think about letting DS6 use the calculator sometimes for multiplication so that we can charge onward? Does that seem like a good idea or a bad idea to you?

I, too, worry about missing things if we jump around. But, then again, DS6 has covered nearly 2 years of math in one semester, so it's not like he's behind. That thought reassures me when I get nervous about going "off-road" with him.

After all, those gaps are where the learning happens, right?

I think you go with what's right for DS right now. If he was in school, he wouldn't be expected to memorize the tables at this age right? I say let him go with the calculator and circle back to memorizing the tables later. Maybe this memorization is a developmental thing, he may not be ready for it. I do think they should be memorizing it later, because multiplication applies to so much higher level math.
When I was a kid we had a family friend who had one of those cheezy casio calculator watches. But he was a C.P.A. with his own business and very talented at math. I asked him why he needed a calculator if he was such a math genius( I was a very charming child ) He was so nice about it though, he told me most math professionals wouldn't consistently do math calculations in their head, because accuracy was too important.
Who knows, had he not said that maybe I never would have considered a career in investments because at that age I had "math anxiety."

Incog

I don't know if it's been suggested already, but my kids had a blast working on Math Kangaroo problems. They are more problem-solving than calculation type problems. There are several grade levels of sample problems to work on:

http://www.mathkangaroo.org/

My kids also like to practice math facts using this gadget:

http://www.flashmaster.com/

Oh, I just wanted to add that this is a great article on how to teach multiplication:

http://www.visualspatial.org/Articles/mthstrat.pdf

Your son will see that there really is not that much to memorize!


HTH!

Cathy

The Continental Mathematics League sells books containing an accumulation of their most challenging questions presented to CML participants in the previous years.

My dd's mentor suggested she works on these problems. My dd is really enjoying working on them. They are word problems and some of them are fairly challenging for kids their age.

A sample question for 4th grade is:

"The numbers 10 A 16 B C 25 are in order. The letters A, B and C represent different numbers. The difference between 10 and A, A and 16, 16 and B, B and C, and C and 25 are all the same. find the number C represents."

The sell the booklets for about $20 (provide the answers on the back of the book) I believe they have them from grade 2 and up.

We also loved the John Hopkins CTY math although we only have time for that during summer.

To answer Kriston's question, we haven't tried Aleks. DS did a trial of both Aleks and Larson math several years ago, and he liked Larson better, so we subscribed to that. He did Larson grade 3-6 immediately after finishing EPGY 3/4 and zipped through very quickly.

I have heard many good things about Aleks, and I think it is a solid program.

Wow! Thanks so much for all of the AMAZING suggestions and resource ideas. I feel much better about what we're doing now. I think we may pick and choose from a lot of them, cobbling together a curriculum that's more interesting and yet also that moves him forward.

Thanks SO MUCH! I love this forum!

Hey Kriston - sorry I'm late. I'm not sure if your son is into computer games yet, but if you are interested in helping him learn multiplication tables there is a computer game out there I found through another GT listserv or website called Timex attack. Standard "boy" format video game that requires you to know your math facts. My DS loves it and learned a lot of the lower end tables this way. You can get a basic version for free to try. He's just waiting for us to upgrade to the "full version", which I told him we'd do when we got a new computer (which is actually being set up this week!). He loved it - I never had to ask him to do it. He gets 20 minutes a day on the computer and he would burn up his time on that game.

http://www.bigbrainz.com/index.php

And Kriston - I may be looking for some crises home school advice very soon. Now we are having some school issues that aren't even GT related, and our administration is proving absolutely useless. I'd love to hear more about Aleks. We've been playing with Singapore and like it a lot too, but DS definitely gets bored with stuff quickly too and loves conceptual math.

You're not late, kim. Thanks for your input! Besides, it sounds like you've got a lot going on right now. It's nice that you're even worrying about lil' ol' me!

I'm sorry about the school crisis. Just let me know what I can do to help. You know where to find me!

Hi Kriston.
My son is really NOT into structured math curriculum but LOVES math. So we have always just played lots of games that work on skills - there are lots of games out there like Shut The Box and CountDown that work on facts without working on them, YKWIM? Also computer games are popular at our house for the same reason. We use Zoombini games for logic/reasoning, MathBlaster for facts and Math Missions. We also have some programs and games that work on time, money and fractions. But, my son is computer game type kid MUCH more than a math worksheet kid.

I also joined a yahoo group called "MathingOff" which provides tons of resources for unschooling math. We explore websites that are posted on the groups listserv, lots of cool math related topics that don't feel like learning to my son at all! Maybe some of that type of approach would help to jazz things up for you!

you know the cartoons where a character finds a cave full of gems and gold coins and runs their fingers through it saying "I'm rich, I'm rich!" in a delighted tone of voice?

I'm having that feeling right now, sifting through all these great ideas from you - such dear friends.

Thanks,
Grinity

kimck,

I have to say thank you for this one. I downloaded the free version and my son loves it. I could not tear him away. I think he'll know all his basic multiplication facts by the end of the weekend. And he'll be better at multiplication than he is with addition and subtraction.

Which brings me to my next question - do you know of any great games like timez attack for addition and subtraction - and reading? DS learns best when he doesn't know he's learning. (And he still dislikes reading, even though he's pretty good at it. Says it's hard and boring and he doesn't like having to spell (i.e., decode) words. He needs to skip to fluency.) Any ideas?

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone. I'm checking them all out.

questions -- have you seen www.funbrain.com? There are different levels, but I can tell you that the first and second grade ones are heavily addition and subtraction based. The math arcade has a board-game set up. Ds loves it and would play all day.

Mia, Thanks so much. I just found that site through our local library web page. I can't believe all the steps my son goes through to add and subtract thanks to everyday math. Timez attack is rote disguised as a video game, and he has learned multiplication and gained speed. He needs comparable rote skills for addition and subtraction.

Re reading, I downloaded reading blaster, which seems to keep his interest as the characters are aliens (not that they look it, and not that the activities relate to aliens, but it seems to keep his interest).

I'm going to bookmark funbrain. Thank you!

I couldn't get Timez attack to work ... is something supposed to happen when you're walking around that first room? Ds could probably figure it out, lol!

We had tho watch the tutorial. They make you walk around for a while. Eventually, a hole in the floor appears. Go through the hole and walk up to a door you find. It will open and game will begin. If you buy the full version, you get different environments to choose from from about level 3 or 4 on up. Otherwise, it's just the ogre and the snails. DS loves the lava part.

Ooh, ds is obsessed with lava. I'll try it again!

Update:

DS6 spent a week or so trying math in ways other than Singapore.

He read one of the Sir Cumference books and another plot-based one on geometry ala Egyptian pyramids. They did nothing for him. Blah.

Bummed, but not bowed, we tried some of the online math sites. He goofed around a bit for a couple of days, but he just didn't enjoy anything he did. He was actually asking "When can I get off the computer," if you can imagine. Strike two.

So I decided to let him write his own math problems for himself. He was all excited about it, so I thought I had a winner! Yippee! The only problem: the problems he wrote were ridiculously hard! It was crazy! So we were right back to the disinterest, only now he was throwing in tears of frustration as a bonus! We went down swinging!

Today I said, "Screw it. We're going back to Singapore."

He was as happy as a clam with it.

I had to nudge him a little (as always) to stay focused and not get distracted with questions about unrelated subjects or with just staring off into space. But he did his math, he did it well, and he didn't argue, whine, complain, cry, etc.

I think perhaps we were just having a bout of "the grass is always greener." A week of actually tasting the other pastures seems to have cured him.

Thank goodness! This was one looooooong week!

Sometimes they do crave a bit of novelty. My oldest fought against change of any kind, but my two school age kids seem to need to shake things up a bit every so often.

Glad to hear that your son is back on track and enjoying his work!

Yes, the novelty seemed to help. And I think he thought something else would be more "fun." It turned out doing Singapore was more fun than the other stuff.

I think, too, that when it comes to math, he's got a bit of Goldilocks Syndrome. Most of what we've done has been too easy because he learns so fast. I'm not spending loads of time giving him dozens of problems he can already do, but if I give him even just a couple to check his knowledge, he's bored. Any review work is met with moans and groans, even active refusal to cooperate once, which isn't his style. (He was with the babysitter for this; she didn't handle it well, which is why I think it got to that extreme point.)

But the flip side of the Syndrome is that if the work is too hard by even a little, he does nothing but stare into space, or he just makes wild guesses.

I think HSing might be very important for him right now because I don't let him get away with these behaviors, and I think a classroom teacher would. I just don't want to make him hate math along the way! That's my big fear.

Thanks, Lorel. I'm glad I can talk about this here.

Sometimes we need to look around what else is available just to find out that we already have the thing which fits us the best

Singapore is a good program, hopefully he stays on the track for next few months. May be you can let him choose a math topic from the workbook here and there so he feels more in control.

We too have very little space between this is too easy and this is too hard. Where is the manual for these kids?

Glad you're back to Singapore and cruising along!

This sounds eeriely like my DS. Everything that comes easily to him is SO BORING. But if you push him past a certain point (which seems like a very fine line), he becomes frustrated extremely fast. And I definitely think his classroom teacher totally lets him get away with things I wouldn't stand for in terms of trying his best and laziness.

That really is part of the beauty of homeschool! You can take a break for a week or 2 and roll right back into it.

So right! The past two days have been a dream! He's learned a thumbnail bit of geography (agricultural and industrial products, attractions like the Grand Canyon or Mt. St. Helens, and fun facts, for example) about all 50 states and finished memorizing them by shape (his choice). He's doing math well and without complaint. He's really enjoying his reading of "Old Yeller." He's writing tongue twisters.

I feel like he was really getting something out of school this week. Some weeks I feel like I'm doing a crummy job, but other weeks I feel like this has been the best thing ever! This was a "best thing ever" week!

Oh Kriston, I also LOVE school weeks like that. Why don't they come more often???
I love when they are getting into the car and start talking through each other : "listen, we did this, and Ms. so and so had this great idea, and I found this coolest book ever, and I learned this about France, and so on and so on..."

Well, if DS were in a school building with someone else teaching him, then I wouldn't know why those weeks don't come more often. But since I'm home schooling my DS, I know EXACTLY why they don't come when they don't! I think that intimate knowledge of weeks gone awry is more painful then the wishing it were different from afar!

Pros and cons of home schooling, I suppose. At least I have some measure of control over whether it's a good learning week or a bad one!

"Pros and cons of home schooling, I suppose. At least I have some measure of control over whether it's a good learning week or a bad one!"

Absolutely.

Kriston, I'm beginning to think I have been spending more time advocating at school than I would on teaching at home.

It's starting to become ridiculous.

I

That's precisely why we're where we are! Between all the time I was going to spend making DS do dumb, easy homework and all the time I was going to spend advocating (badly), it just didn't seem to make good sense to stay in that school!

So where does that leave you, 'Neato? What are you thinking?

That is exactly where we are Kriston and 'Neato. I feel like we are just spinning our wheels at our current school and neither my husband or I are particularly good at pushing hard and advocating. It gets so exhausting jumping through hoops for a school that won't meet us half way. They've dropped the ball on almost everything I've talked them into. Not to mention, some size and disciplary problems in DS's class right now. I feel like for us to be succssful, we need a school that will meet us half way and be used to dealing with these situations. Or we need to homeschool (which is defintely what we're researching hard right now).

Anyway 'Neato, do tell us how it is going!

Anything I can do to help you, Kim?

I certainly can't blame you for being sick and tired of all those problems!

Thanks Kriston! Actually, just hearing a homeschool on the fly success story is very encouraging!

Maybe DS is just more GT than we've been telling ourselves (continued GT denial)? Anyway - thanks for allowing me that vent. May be looking for more home school wisdom as time goes on here! We are debating finishing out the year. DS is really quite happy socially right now even though he's not learning anything.

Okay, I'm back. Had to get the little monsters bathed and ready for school in the morning.

Well, things aren't going so well. DD7's everday extra pullout is supposed to start back up Monday, so that is good. In the last three weeks all the emotional problems at home have cropped back up. She finally admitted it has more to do with the fact that she really doesn't like doing work she already knows.
I asked her to tell the teacher and she was afraid. She was nervous because she doesn't want to teacher to be mad at her.
I wanted the teacher to hear it from her, so they know this stuff isn't coming from me. DD7 actually told me what her teacher would say to her if she complained. I told her to nicely ask the teacher to test her on the material to demonstrate that she knows it and then she could move on to new material.
DD7 was so cute, she said, "Well that doesn't sound too bad, it might just work."
Anyway, the teacher was having a bad day and didn't handle it too well.
In her defense, she knew it and sent an apology e-mail and will speak to DD again this week.
I won't post it, but I think my response was pretty effective and would PM it to anyone interested.

The saga continues................

Then there is HG DD5 or C-dog as I like to call her in the forum.
She was happy up until a month ago, or so "learning how to do school". Well that gig is up, and K hasn't had the enrichment teacher at all for the same reason older sister's class didn't.
C-dog has been crying everyday when I pick her up. She says she doesn't want to go to school. There was at least one day that teacher told me her behavior was bad. Another mom reported that on another day she saw her remanded to her desk with another boy during story time. She was crying one day and told me she was the dumbest one in class????????????
She knows she's not, I'm not sure what the deal is. She sees the child psychologist who tested her twice a month, because I want her to have help with OE's and it's going really well.
We agreed that a gradeskip would help her, but I don't think the school is going to go for it. I have a call in to the principal. I'm sure they are so looking forward to talking to me again! Will probably ask for the school psych to get involved and hope he will see what we see and be open to recommending a grade skip.

You know, I thought we had things on a good path, but I'm starting to wonder if we can ever expect anything to run smoothly. I'm not giving up yet, but wow, I'm worn down.

Incog

Oh, I'm so sorry! That all sounds perfectly awful! No wonder you're feeling worn out and fed up.

Anything we can do to help?

Ummmmmmmmm, could you come and be the principal at DD's school?

Incog

I do have HS in the back pocket, I have been collecting resources. We're not ready to do it yet, though.

LOL! You don't want me as principal. I'm WAAAAAY too flighty and disorganized lately!

I have a list of HS links a mile long, so if you need anything there, let me know. I'd be glad to give you anything I've got.

In the meantime, hang in there. I'm hoping for better days for you and your kids.

K-

Thanks, hope you enjoy the PM I just sent you.

I

Oh neato!
I hate to think of you having to start all over again with C-Dog. It is my experience that being around adults who think your child has "something wrong with them" isn't good for the child's self-esteem!

Please keep fighting no matter how you feel, and fake being pushy if they aren't responding to the 'nice' approach.
((pout))
Grinity

Awww 'Neato, having 2 coming home from school miserable sounds really terrible!

My DS7 sounds like he's in a similar spot as your DD7. "All the work I do at school, I already know". And he is in the class of 26 that is laden with discipinary issues. And it was right after the holidays last year where he started complaining heavily about kindergarten.

"The dumbest one in class" phenomena is interesting. I distictly remember feeling that way as a child, and DS comes out with that every once in a while. I wonder if it has more to do with knowing intuitively that you're different from almost everyone you come in contact with?

I hope DD7's pull out gets back in place on schedule, and the child psychologist will back you up for a grade skip! It sounds like a rough road! Definitely keep us posted.

Yes, "the dumbest one in class" comment has me concerned. I think you may be on to something she is VERY intuitive. What bothers me is we already know the teacher doesn't think DD5 is "the cream of the crop". Rembember that lovely thread? What if she is "reading" some of that and internalizing it?
Am I overthinking this?

I had a good talk with principle today. We have a plan to meet with teacher, social worker and principle after they've all had a conversation.
I do think the conversation went well and is promising. We'll see how this goes. I think principle is understanding about some of my concerns.

DD8(I keep calling her DD7, but she turned 8 two weeks ago!)started her program back up today! HOORAY!!!!

FWIW, I am glad DD7 did tell teacher in her own words what your son is saying at home. I think the teacher needs to hear it from the child instead of the parent all the time.

You mentioned DS7 started complaining after the holidays. I'm pretty sure it's common in most schools to start heavy review in January.
DD5 keeps telling us (and everyone now, she told my religous education class today) that after President's Day she is moving to first grade. I've told her that's not happening and she just gives me a blank stare. I don't think she believes me. I'm going to be afraid to pick her up from school the day after President's Day!!!!!!

Incog

I don't think you're overthinking it.

I am glad her program started up again. At least not ALL their promises are falling by the wayside! Yippee!

Hang in there!

I definitely don't think you're overthinking it either. GT kids are very in tuned to what goes on around them.

Last week I was sitting at a gymnastics class for DD3. 2 mothers were having a conversation in front of a boy I'm guessing to be around my DS's age (1st or 2nd grade). I could not BELIEVE the things they were talking about in front of this boy. My DS would inquisition me and reprimand me for about an hour if I would have had this conversation in front of him. It struck me that perhaps it is a GT thing. I'm not sure I would have had this conversation in front of my 3 year old.

All that sounds encouraging! I hope the good news keeps rolling in.

I'm so glad the program started up again! Yea - at least they kept their word about that.

I'm sorry about DD5 though. My DS10 has said many times he is the "dumbest". This usually comes out of frustration with whatever he is having trouble with at the moment (part of his visual problem usually). It makes me feel awful when he says this so I know how you feel.

You'll have to let us know how it all goes after President's Day. Good luck with that!

(btw LOVE the magnifying glass for your icon. Makes me think of Sherlock Holmes every time I see it)

Kriston,
I like to pass on a tip that helped both my kids memorize the times tables when my dd entered the grade where instant recall of multiplication was first stressed.

I stole an idea from the �captive audience� advertisers. I bought a times table poster from an educational store and hung it up right in front of the commode in the bathroom that my kids share.

As I�ve mentioned before, they are visual learners, so this worked like a charm without the drill.

Thanks! I'll give that a try! DS6 dawdles when he's on the toilet (just like he does EVERYTHING else, too!), so this might be just the thing!

Brilliant, Debbie. There will be a poster in my "reading room" by the end of the week!




I