Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Effort, sloppiness - Outside influences

After watching so many gifties fail, I decided on how I would handle these issues. She is only 12 and going to 8th so I hopefully see what happens.

Before Kinder, I just went with what her level was in any subject. She did not wish to read, but loved science and art. The main issue was enthusiasm for us. If she was interested in anything, we sought it out. I also introduced her to museums and many children's museum where she could touch, etc. She went to a great preschool where she took french and she did learn a lot.

We kept checking the book "acids and bases" out of the library and she could not get enough of it.

In Kinder, we began homework. It was issued at this school solely to learn how to do it and establish habits. We always did the extra credit. I knew that she would hit puberty and these habits had better be in her mind or she would become a bad statistic. I instilled in her the work ethic - which anyone needs. However, it was a great school and fairly flexible.
My favorite assignment was to get a book from home and pick out all the nouns in it. Well, she grabbed "Once Upon a Potty" knowing how I felt about these kinds of words. She found all the nouns and enjoyed the assignment tremendously.

She decided to read in first grade and jumped three grade levels in one month. That is how she does things and I accept it. She is always above grade level and then, with all the information she has collected, she puts it all together and boom, she excels. This is not uncommon for gifties.

Now, she is in middle school and is more defiant with me. She will ask questions, but on her timing. But, my rules apply that she has to do the extra credit and all her work. But, she does it herself.

I insist that she joined band and choir and now it is her life. She fits in better with the students there. She is expected to be active in two clubs. She chose science fair (and went to state) and I chose yearbook. There are not many clubs here and as she learns the yearbook applications, will love the design aspect. She is also in GT club, which was not very active, but they took some cool trips.

Basically, most of the students here just want a "c" in any class and we expect "A"s. I have her enrolled in a community college English course this summer so she may stay in band and choir and also take hs level Spanish. At least, she will have to think.

Oh no! I wasn't referring to you at all!

I was referring to the principal who accused me of not letting my son be a kid when I asked about his policy on acceleration ("Never done it. Never will."). And the kindergarten teacher who told me that "silent e can be damaging at this age." I was also talking about the parents who constantly shouted GET TO THE BALL, <NAME>!! while watching their six-year-old play soccer. The parents in that league were so bad, the people who ran it had to erect signs saying "No shouting during matches, please."

I was definitely NOT referring to you. I was agreeing with you!

So, I'm sorry if I caused confusion or sounded rude!

Val

I love that "silent e can be damaging at this age".

I am not being critical but the whole statement, "let a kid be a kid". What does that mean? I am on one extreme with the overscheduling and so many kids are on the other watching TV. I will ride my bike to pick her up after school today. She goes to the playground for 25 minutes after school with her chums, then we go on the bike to gymnastics.

Is she suffering because she get 25 minutes and not 60? This summer she goes to swim or tennis camp in the morning and spends the rest of the day on the beach. Except for a weekly piano lesson and practice everyday. The kid in scheduled day camp from 8 am to 5 pm. Do they get to be a kid more?

I am not sure how you let a kid be a kid. My child does not have any siblings, does not have to help with a younger sister or brother while "mommy gets dinner ready". Do those kinds of chores get in the way of being a kid?

When you start talking about giving responsibilities, including practicing piano or keeping your room tidy, when does it become good habits and not allowing a child to be a child?

I read Ellipses with real interest, especially her phrase, "too many gifties that fail".

DD is still 5, for a few more months. And sometimes I think I am so crazy with the worry, so it is good to know I am not the only one obsessing.

Ren

She said it to me as a warning: don't let your five-year-old read. Oh well.



I think that the line gets crossed when the child feels forced to do non-school, non-chore-related activities solely to meet parental expectations and without any internal motivation. I agree that this is a hard question to answer.

There are the easy-to-read situations, like the parents who yell at their kids during sporting events or parents who go onto a skating rink and crab at their kids for not doing a perfect axel. These cases are the ones where (I think) the parents are living vicariously through the kids, as Azuil said.

Alternatively, it seems to me that this situation isn't at all the same as the story about the boy who wanted to quit baseball because he encountered some difficulty. His parent told him that he had to finish out the season. Sometimes it's good to be made to finish something you start.



People can do poorly for lots of reasons: academically, gifted kids who are never challenged at school can fall apart when they finally encounter challenging material. They can also "fail" if they get pushed too hard and too long to be perfect at something. I think it's important to ask a child --- in a neutral way and maybe by a third party sometimes --- if they really want to do an activity or if they feel forced.

Again, I'm not advocating that kids should be able to quit when something gets tough. I'm saying that when a parent's interests in Joey's athletic performance become more important than Joey's own ideas, it's time to re-evaluate.

If a child is performing just to make a parent happy (yet the child is miserable inside, as Azuil so eloquently described) the parent isn't letting the child be the child that s/he is. For me, this is the crucial idea. This is the same mistake that teachers and others make when they tell us we're not letting our kids be kids because we let them do algebra when they're nine. We get frustrated because we know we aren't hothousing them: we're just letting them be the kids that they are, and we wish the schools would respect that.

Hope that makes sense.

Val

I've seen kids get smacked or down right yelled during a baseball practice of game, for merely throwing the ball a little to the left or right of the first baseman, or not making it to first 1.2 seconds prior to runner getting there. These kids are 5 and 6. To me, that is wrong.

Sure I have yelled to DS6 to throw the ball TO the first baseman (actually he plays first, but still). Or I have "yelled" to him to get back in his stance when he's up to bat. But I would never consider smackin' him upside the head or making him do laps because he missed a ball during a game or sit there and tell him he'll never amount to anything, etc, for him not being an MLB caliber player at 6 years old... It happens; I see it all the time. And it's sad to me.

I just say "Yay!"

Val

DH and I have had this discussion recently. DS is involved in one extracurricular activity, at our insistence. It amounts to two hours per week and we're not that diligent with practice. We aren't so concerned with mastery as with the process. We don't intervene in the class, we casually observe from the sidelines. The only thing we've told DS with regard to the class is that he do his best and put forth some effort and he does.

If one were to ask DS10 if he really wanted to do it or if he felt forced, the answers would be "NO" and "yes" respectively. I hate that, although, I've seen him at class and he's engaged and having fun. The hardest part of it all for DS is stopping the fun of playing with friends or whatever else he's doing to go do this activity. He thinks he's missing out on something. Plainly put, if allowed, DS would do nothing but play all day. Unstructured play time is very important to us for him and we see to it that he gets plenty, but we also want to have an exposure to other things. If DS came up with an alternative or was interested in doing anything else, of course, that would be taken into consideration.

I feel we're doing the right thing by forcing this issue, but I do have moments of wondering if there will be some long-term deep-seated resentment because we made him devote two hours a week to an activity that got in the way of what he wanted to do. Only time will tell, I guess.

I wish that's all I could say, but I help coach now.

I've been following this with interest. DD8 takes piano and hates to practice. At the same time, she has a fantastic ear and corrects the teacher if she makes a mistake. DD8 analyzes other people's playing with amazing depth. She has been described as an adult in a kid's body when she talks about music. Her playing improves significantly when she bothers to put in minimal effort. She often won't play things as written (she'll go up or down an octave or play with the melody). She loves her teacher (I liken it to a therapy session). She says that she loves piano. I'm torn whether to keep paying for lessons when she doesn't seem motivated. I don't want to push her to practice.

I bet that's lots of fun and completely exhausting at the same time! I used to think that six-year-old soccer coaching was a lot like herding kittens: the kids followed coach (or the ball) everywhere, in a big tight group.

Well, everyone except my then-six-year-old, who would plop down and study the field in the middle of a game (What cool grass! Look at the rock I found!)

Val