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    #7514 01/18/08 01:39 PM
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    cym Offline OP
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    We discussed assigning new forum topics, like "Parenting", but I guess that's not happening.

    My DS13 can be wonderful and can be difficult/unreachable, back and forth. Such a roller coaster! Just venting.

    Lots of eyeball rolling and huffing, he thinks he's smarter than I am (he probably is, but I don't care!).


    cym #7519 01/18/08 03:28 PM
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    acs Offline
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    DS is 12 and we are starting to get some of that. We read a book a year ago in which the mom had second name "Phil" that she used to describe the surly/huffy/unreachable version of her DS. My DS thought that was funny and has given himself an alter-ego- "Tom." When DS is "Tom" he is still unreachable, but once he feels more like himself again, we can discuss our visit from "Tom." And we both have a chuckle.

    acs #7521 01/18/08 06:27 PM
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    Could this surly/moody adolescent stuff start by 8, or is it going to get worse?!?!?!?!?

    I usually try to bring it to her attention by saying something like, "Anything else your Royal Heiness?", which used to make her laugh but now she just smirks at me. smile

    I

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    I can beat that! I've got a 6yo who started at 5 with the eye rolls and mouthiness.

    Is this your basic GT precociousness, or are we just raising obnoxious kids?

    (Mostly kidding, but not as much as I wish I were!)

    I can't believe it's going to get worse as he gets older! Woe is us!


    Kriston
    Kriston #7530 01/18/08 08:14 PM
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    Be afraid...............be VERY afraid......!!!!!!!!!!

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    LOL! laugh


    Kriston
    Kriston #7543 01/19/08 06:54 AM
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    Cym-

    I can relate. My oldest went through a phase when he was 15- I was ready to throw him out of the house! He was just so disrespectful and lazy. We got into a "discussion" every time I asked him to do anything.

    Adolescence is tough- and I think it has only gotten harder in the last generation. There are so many conflicting messages sent by society and the media. I don't think we should ever put up with rudeness and disrespect, but it can be difficult for them to separate from parents without a few tears being shed on each side. Just keep insisting on common courtesy.

    Keep in mind that this is a phase, and you will see that sweet and loving young son again someday.

    hugs-


    Lorel #7555 01/19/08 09:46 AM
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    Originally Posted by Lorel
    Cym-

    I can relate. My oldest went through a phase when he was 15- I was ready to throw him out of the house! He was just so disrespectful and lazy. We got into a "discussion" every time I asked him to do anything.

    Adolescence is tough- and I think it has only gotten harder in the last generation. There are so many conflicting messages sent by society and the media. I don't think we should ever put up with rudeness and disrespect, but it can be difficult for them to separate from parents without a few tears being shed on each side. Just keep insisting on common courtesy.

    Keep in mind that this is a phase, and you will see that sweet and loving young son again someday.

    hugs-


    Ditto on what Lorel said. As for the 5 year old girl with an attitude? I wouldn't blame hormones for that, it's more of a learned behavior at that age. As Lorel said, keep insisting on common courtesy.

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    Consistency, definately, keep insisting on courtesy. The thing is some of these things definately come out of left field. DD7 used to growl like an animal when she was little to express her displeasure. I can tell you for sure she didn't learn this from us!!!!
    She also used to tell me at 2 I was breaking her heart whenever I told her no, except it came out like...you bweaking my hea(r)t!
    She came up with that on her own, however, she did quickly learn it reduced me to a puddle of mush and she pretty much got her way!


    I

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    cym Offline OP
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    I spent yesterday with DS (a long day--5 am to 9 pm) for regional science olympiad competition. As a 9th grader you can participate with your old middle school. DS was so mature, pleasant, and helpful. I loved it. I think removing him from his high school friends makes him a nicer person--I've actually suggested homeschooling, but he declined.

    Yes, we'll get through this time (I keep telling poor DS11--"You better not act like this when you're older!")

    Thanks all!

    cym #7590 01/20/08 10:57 AM
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    Yes, I'm *all about* the common courtesy. If anything, I'm a hard-you-know-what about behavior, DEFINTELY not a pushover! So I don't entirely buy the "learned behavior" thing. It's a bit too much "blame the mother" for my taste. And since I do NOT tolerate that behavior, I know that's not fair.

    I do find that he behaves worse when I haven't spent as much time with him, so I usually figure it's an attention-getting move on his part.


    Kriston
    Kriston #7595 01/20/08 11:25 AM
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    cym - that is so interesting about the high school friends. My DS7 who is only in 1st grade has recently befriended some boys in his class that I strongly suspect have MUCH older siblings. He comes home every day from school lately talking like a rapper in a very disrespectful tone. It is not helping me want to make this school work out at all! We've really had to lay down the law lately and it makes me so sad! He's only 7! After a weekend at home, he's his sweet, huggy 45 lb self again.

    kimck #7596 01/20/08 11:35 AM
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    Ugh, Kim! frown So sorry!


    Kriston
    Kriston #7606 01/20/08 03:25 PM
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    Originally Posted by Kriston
    Yes, I'm *all about* the common courtesy. If anything, I'm a hard-you-know-what about behavior, DEFINTELY not a pushover! So I don't entirely buy the "learned behavior" thing. It's a bit too much "blame the mother" for my taste. And since I do NOT tolerate that behavior, I know that's not fair.

    I do find that he behaves worse when I haven't spent as much time with him, so I usually figure it's an attention-getting move on his part.


    You jumped to the wrong conclusion on where the child learned the behavior, if you are referring to my comment. Look at how much press Brittney Spears and her younger sister get. Look how popular the "Bratz" dolls are. Watch the commercials and see the attitude children are giving the adults. Talk to elementary school teachers, ones who have taught more than 10 years, and ask them if younger and younger children are showing more 'attitude'.
    I'm sorry you apparently thought I was blaming you, but a 5 year old with 'attitude' is not suffering hormone issues unless you're dealing with a malfunctioning hormone system. It's a learned behavior.

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    acs Offline
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    OHGrandma is right. If DS watches any Nicholodian shows, the attitude shows up right away. Or is with certain friends. This has been the case since he was in preschool and continues now. He does not see the difference, but we do. I just say, that is how the characters on the shows talk to their parents, but it is not how you speak to us. Or if he has been with friends all day, I tell him that it's OK to talk to close friends that way, but not to adults. He did not get it at first, but I see how he switches back and forth pretty easily now.

    I will say that sometimes DH and I do get a little sassy with each other too. So I will take some responsibility as one of those less than perfect role models.

    acs #7608 01/20/08 04:20 PM
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    Ha acs! My husband and I do tend to have a brand of dry humor that flies around the house at times that probably doesn't help DS at all either!

    We don't have cable at home anymore just to avoid those horrible programs that are broadcast on Nick, cartoon network, etc these days. Although, my kids watch movies and you can hardly unglue them from the cable when they go visit their grandparents. DS definitely goes through the attitude after these visits with the cable.

    We are definitely having issues with the tone of the boys DS is in love with at school right now. They sound like the watch unlimited sponge bob or worse. They both have longish hair too. Just waiting for DS to decide he isn't going to get any more haircuts! crazy

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    Dottie #7611 01/20/08 04:56 PM
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    Both DS10 and DS6 have "longish hair" as it is also considered "cool" around here. But we don't have any angst either! smile But then they've never been allowed to watch Sponge bob and all those other kinds of shows. I very much dislike the way the characters are so disrespectful but I can also see that they could be used as a teaching tool for how not to act. As Dottie says about her kids, mine are young too and I am sure my angst ridden days are before me. crazy

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    Originally Posted by OHGrandma
    You jumped to the wrong conclusion on where the child learned the behavior, if you are referring to my comment. Look at how much press Brittney Spears and her younger sister get. Look how popular the "Bratz" dolls are. Watch the commercials and see the attitude children are giving the adults. Talk to elementary school teachers, ones who have taught more than 10 years, and ask them if younger and younger children are showing more 'attitude'.
    I'm sorry you apparently thought I was blaming you, but a 5 year old with 'attitude' is not suffering hormone issues unless you're dealing with a malfunctioning hormone system. It's a learned behavior.


    But my 6yo boy doesn't know who Brittney Spears is, and he doesn't play with Bratz dolls. He's home schooled, and none of his friends are bratty kids (or he wouldn't see them anymore!). The only TV he watches is PBS or Discovery Channel edu-tainment. The closest thing he sees to a bad attitude is what's exhibited by one or another of the trains on a "Thomas the Tank Engine" show...and then we discuss why the train's bad behavior is not okay!

    Of course he's not suffering from hormones, but he does pull an attitude with me from time-to-time. If it's strictly a learned behavior, then I'm the one he's learning it from...and he's NOT learning it from me!

    What I'm saying is that I think some part of normal development involves "attitude." That's not to say it's okay. (It's certainly not okay in my house!) But I think that acting out and being reined in by authority figures is a normal part of growing up. It's also a way that a kid who's still pretty young emotionally can say, "Hey, Mom, I need more of your attention."


    Kriston
    EandCmom #7617 01/20/08 06:08 PM
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    I just think little boys with the short "little man" hair cut are so darn cute! I've always kept DS's hair short. But if he wants the long hair, he can definitely have it. But the attitude must go! DS has chameleon tendancies - wants to fit in with whoever he is with. When he's truly himself, he's sweet, empathetic, sensitive. He likes school socially, but hasn't necessarily found a great peer group there where he can just be himself. He's on a very short leash for media access at home.

    I do have a 12 year old nephew with quite a mop of hair, and he's adorable in it. I'm sure it's just a matter of time until we have one at our house!

    kimck #7618 01/20/08 06:53 PM
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    I DO think there is a place for attitude. I just don't want him to be that way all the time. I do think there is a tough guy in him and I want him to be able to express it as well as the sweet sensitive guy. Both of them are part of DS's real self. In our family, it is about context and control. That means he gets to experiment with different personas and learn how to manage them all. Sometimes that means making mistakes and dealing with consequences.

    We don't have cable and DS hardly watches any TV (maybe an hour a week), so DS only gets Nick at his grandparents' house and Cartoon Network (in Spanish) when we are in Central America. His friends are mostly very nice and each set seems to bring out a slightly different part of him, but boy-play can be rough physcically and emotionally.

    I highly recommend a book called Raising Cain:Protecting the Emotional Life of Boys by Kindlon and Thompson. It really helped me understand my brothers, husband, and now my son.


    acs #7619 01/20/08 10:10 PM
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    Thanks for the rec, acs. May I ask: what specifically is good about Raising Cain? Why did you like that book in particular? (You know me and my quest for more info... wink )

    smile

    Originally Posted by acs
    In our family, it is about context and control. That means he gets to experiment with different personas and learn how to manage them all. Sometimes that means making mistakes and dealing with consequences.

    BTW, I think this is very smart. If they can't experiment and make mistakes and learn from the consequences now, when will they? As adults? The consequences are much greater then! I think you're a wise woman!


    Kriston
    Kriston #7620 01/20/08 11:11 PM
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    Originally Posted by Kriston
    Thanks for the rec, acs. May I ask: what specifically is good about Raising Cain? Why did you like that book in particular? (You know me and my quest for more info... wink )

    Ok, I like that book, but now you've actually made me go to my bookshelf and double check, I'm going to have to update my recommendation. If you're going to get one book, it should be the sequel "Speaking of Boys" by Thompson. It's way more practical.

    According to this book, boys are annoying and smart-alecky for 5 reasons. 1) It's biological and related to primate dominance displays 2)It's part of adolescent separation from adults 3)immaturity--a reaction to fear 4)they learn it from watching adult males (athletes and movie stars and lawyers etc etc), 5)it gives them a sense of power and actually intimidates people and that's pretty exciting when you feel small and scared.

    According to the book, one handles it by, "not rising to the bait, not lecturing or moralizing, not becoming frightened, and not patronizing." One should try to disarm it. Thompson gives examples of how he handles it too, but I don't want to type in the whole book.

    I had DH read both these books and he says they got it right. Then I loaned them to my mother who raised 2 sons. She had them them in the bathroom for light reading. Several months later, one of my brothers who was visiting them asked me where I got those books. He said he'd really liked them and that after reading them, he felt like he had a much better understanding of his own childhood. So that's why I recommend them--because men I trust think they got it right.

    acs #7621 01/20/08 11:43 PM
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    Excellent! Thanks for taking the time to fill me in, acs! On the face of it, those reasons for attitude make sense to me. I appreciate your rec, and I'm looking up the book online at my local library now. Many thanks! smile


    Kriston
    Kriston #7626 01/21/08 06:22 AM
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    I grew up with 2 sisters, so I was not prepared for having 4 boys. Girls and boys definitely do things differently. Much more physical with boys, and it is sometimes hard for me not to jump in and make them stop wrestling--my DH says, "it's ok--no one is getting hurt".

    Regarding DS 13, I don't think he understands how he sounds when answering me--his voice is changing, and when I call to him and he answers "WHAT?" in the nastiest voice, he looks surprised when I march up and say he's not allowed to speak to me like that.

    He moves more slowly than an old lady; when we walk together, I get there way before him, and I'm much closer to the "old woman". He slouches in chairs with his legs spread out (I wonder how much he does this at school)--we got into such an argument because it looks disrespectful to sit like that (body language)--gangsterish. I repeatedly tell him he's not a gangster--far from it, but I know he's just trying to be "cool".

    He does not watch a lot of TV, but listens to a lot of music, maybe some music videos on computer, YouTube. I think he gets the "cool" walk/stance from friends or kids at school. His school does have real-life gangsters. >70% low income, >%50 hispanic--a kid got run over (deliberately) in front of him on Friday. Maybe it's survival stance for skinny little white boy.

    acs #7630 01/21/08 07:27 AM
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    Raising Cain is a great book and I totally agree with you for allowing boys especially to have a time and a place to be tough. Our living room is practically a full time wresting arena. wink

    I don't even think DS7 necessarily even knows the tone he is conveying when he regurgitates the teen speak from school. And he's slowly learning there is a difference between talking to his friends and joking around. And talking to a parent or another adult.

    kimck #7645 01/21/08 06:17 PM
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    I have bad feelings about that book because a friend read it and has taken it to mean that correcting her children at all is stifling their "masculinity" and that it is ok for them to act awful because "boys will be boys". Also, her husband has taken this to mean any type of creative task assigned at school is trying to make a girl out of his son.

    acs since you and kimck have recommended it, it makes me think that this is probably not the point the book was trying to make. I think boys can be masculine and "manly" without being completely rude and out of control. My kids want to wrestle all the time but the problem is someone always winds up hurt and crying. So I'd rather they'd not wrestle - but not because I care about that type of play, but because they don't seem to be able to handle it. I also love them doing creative type things at school and at home and don't think this will make them any less masculine. Anyway, maybe I should give this book a try and see what I get out of it. smile

    EandCmom #7647 01/21/08 07:53 PM
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    I haven't read it in a while; I am just glancing through it now, but can't quite recreate the whole argument. Basically, I would say it is a complex and nuanced set of arguments that the authors make which explore boys from a lot of angles. I am guessing that your friend missed some of the key points.

    The authors have been counseling boys and men for decades and you can real feel their love and appreciation for the boys they have known and masculinity in general. But they are very into appropriate limit setting, exploring feelings, and creating appropriate levels of safety. Actually, if your friend's husband had read the book carefully, I suspect he would accuse it of trying to make a girl out of his son because it's goal is to help keep boys' emotional lives healthy, so it can get a little touchy-feely!

    I do think you would like it.

    acs #7648 01/21/08 08:08 PM
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    acs - I bet my friend's DH didn't read the book very well at all, probably just skimmed it at best. I'm all for touchy-feely and keeping my boys' emotional lives healthy so I will definitely give it a try. Thanks for the recommendation - because I sure would never have tried it otherwise! smile

    kimck #7655 01/22/08 08:41 AM
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    Although the hormones don't hit earlier for our kids, I do think that there is a 'mental component' of adolescence that does hit 'precosiously.' Also, the kids who are 'OverExcitable' can do a lot with just a little wif of the hormones. At 9 my son did start changes that were almost inperceptable, but the behavior clicked in big time - turning to friends for applause instead of the parents being the most annoying. I chalk it up to a combination of poor fit educational environment, a mini-wif of hormones (enough to turn the skin of his upper lip darker than other skin, and an increase in the blonde hairs, and the smell) and a mental growth that mirrors what his 12 year old mental age peers are going through. Make sense?
    Smiles,
    Grinity


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    Grinity #7677 01/22/08 03:09 PM
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    Yup. Makes sense to me. I think it's part-and-parcel of the generalized advancement of these kids. Especially the sponge-like ones who are around older kids, too. The combo in especially precocious and sensitive kids could really kick the attitude into high gear.

    Besides, puberty is a process that can begin as young as 7 or 8-ish, particularly in girls, so it's not like 14yos have a monopoly on hormonal issues!

    Oh, I so dread it in my younger one! He's a handful already. I can't imagine his excitabilities when hormones get going, too! frown

    I may have to move out when he hits puberty...


    Kriston
    EandCmom #7684 01/22/08 05:38 PM
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    Originally Posted by EandCmom
    I have bad feelings about that book because a friend read it and has taken it to mean that correcting her children at all is stifling their "masculinity" and that it is ok for them to act awful because "boys will be boys". Also, her husband has taken this to mean any type of creative task assigned at school is trying to make a girl out of his son.

    acs since you and kimck have recommended it, it makes me think that this is probably not the point the book was trying to make. I think boys can be masculine and "manly" without being completely rude and out of control. My kids want to wrestle all the time but the problem is someone always winds up hurt and crying. So I'd rather they'd not wrestle - but not because I care about that type of play, but because they don't seem to be able to handle it. I also love them doing creative type things at school and at home and don't think this will make them any less masculine. Anyway, maybe I should give this book a try and see what I get out of it. smile


    I thought the book was good. As for your friend, you might tell her, "yes, boys will be boys, but we are trying to raise them to be men!"

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    Ooh! I like that, OHGrandma! Good one! laugh


    Kriston
    Kriston #7697 01/23/08 07:45 AM
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    Quote
    As for your friend, you might tell her, "yes, boys will be boys, but we are trying to raise them to be men!"

    LOL OHGrandma!!!! I hate the old "boys will be boys" or "girls just behave that way". It's usually used to excuse some type of bad behavior and deficient parenting skills (IMHO!!!). It's so hard because so many people don't think they should have to make their children behave because it will hurt their self-esteem. I read a great article that said self-esteem isn't what we need to be so worried about these days, but rather teaching self-control. I really thought that was great! smile

    EandCmom #7699 01/23/08 08:33 AM
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    Originally Posted by EandCmom
    .... It's so hard because so many people don't think they should have to make their children behave because it will hurt their self-esteem. I read a great article that said self-esteem isn't what we need to be so worried about these days, but rather teaching self-control. I really thought that was great! smile

    ooooohhhhhh, now you got me started on a pet-peeve, 'self-esteem'! When I was in my 20's, during the 1970's, I had started to buy into the theory that 'low self-esteem is the reason why criminals commit crimes'. Then we had a guest speaker at church who was a chaplain at a state penitentiary(and still volunteers in his 90's!). He said, "low self-esteem is not the average criminal's problem, it's a false sense of HIGH self-esteem". I came to understand and believe him during the years after that.
    Allowing a child to behave badly, speak disrespectfully, etc., reinforces a childs' primal belief that the world revolves around the child. As a helpless, newborn infant, the baby should be the center of his universe; but as the baby grows he should learn the whole universe does not revolve around him and he must respect others. Self-control, respect for others; these character traits help build a healthy self-esteem.
    OK, back to the topic...adolescent angst...making that final seperation from being a child and under the parent's authority to becoming an automonous adult has it's perils. Even in very reclusive communities(thinking of Amish), some children stray from the path set before them by the adults. In families where the choices are almost unlimited, it can overwhelm the adolescent starting to make those choices.
    I think the human race would have died out centuries ago if children arrived at or just before the adolescent stage, hahaha. By the time those cute, cuddly babies reach adolescence, you get kind of attached to them!

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    Originally Posted by OHGrandma
    Allowing a child to behave badly, speak disrespectfully, etc., reinforces a childs' primal belief that the world revolves around the child. As a helpless, newborn infant, the baby should be the center of his universe; but as the baby grows he should learn the whole universe does not revolve around him and he must respect others.

    I think this is exactly right.

    I always say that if a kid doesn't get limits--never hears a "no" that s/he can trust to mean *no*--then the child never learns to trust a parent's "yes" or "I love you" either.

    Dependable is dependable, even when dependable means saying "no."



    Kriston
    Kriston #7702 01/23/08 10:54 AM
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    Originally Posted by Kriston
    I always say that if a kid doesn't get limits--never hears a "no" that s/he can trust to mean *no*--then the child never learns to trust a parent's "yes" or "I love you" either.

    Dependable is dependable, even when dependable means saying "no."


    Excellent point. Who trusts the words of someone you don't respect, and how can you respect someone you don't trust?

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    Quote
    My DS13 can be wonderful and can be difficult/unreachable, back and forth. Such a roller coaster! Just venting.

    Had to resurrect this thread b/c of a phone call I got this am from DH.
    DH does math club on Monday A.M. at kid's school. DS was so full of "attitude" this A.M. that he had to kick him out of the classroom. Literally. DS wanted to come back in after a while but DH would not let him, he just said "stay out please".

    Like Cym wrote in some of her posts, it is such a roller coaster. One day (or one minute) DS can be very responsible and very mature and then suddenly act as a total jerk. Like yesterday - both kids play their instruments at mass - he was so mature, so well responding to other people in church, so well dressed and may I say that he dresses himself now (you know what I mean) and he can really look like a very propper, very preppy boy. He likes wearing nice shoes, jackets, will not leave the house without a belt etc.
    Because he had quite a busy weekend up to that point, I asked if he wanted to go skiing in the afternoon. Of course he did, so I took DS and his buddy (had to drive to pick him up) up the mountain for the afternoon. In the evening, when we got back - a totally different boy! Full of attitude, evasive, twisting the truth etc. And obviously this attitude continues today.
    My first reaction to incidents like this is taking away priviliges like cell phone, i-pod, laptop, till behavior improves. I tried reasoning and kind of adult to adult talk, but I get instant improvement when I take priviliges away (it is like he can't survive without texting), so I tend to do it.
    He has a B-day coming up this weekend. He will be 13. He has been asking for a guitar since he was 8 or 9 years old, we have always said that he will get one when he is a teenager. There is an electric guitar waiting form him, hidden in the basement, but I am of course having second thoughts.
    I am just venting, I know that it REALLY is a roller coaster and that he will be nice and obedient again in 24 hours or less and than again this change of attitude in a day or two.
    I do allow him to talk to me when he is angry or irritated and walk away to distance himself. I do this and have told my kids over and over again that I will accept something like that when emotions are flying high. But it is slowly changing into this love you one day/ hate you tomorrow attitude .

    Ania #11053 03/10/08 10:59 AM
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    Ugh. Sorry, Ania.

    How are you approaching this attitude problem? What's your strategy?

    The whole thought of this sort of thing makes my teeth ache. Ick.


    Kriston
    Kriston #11057 03/10/08 11:55 AM
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    Like I said ^^ I take priviliges away, which gets me two things:
    anger from my child directed at me and an almost instant improvement in behavior.
    I also talk, and talk, and talk. I make sure I let my kids have opinions, as I grew up in a house that I could not have one, or at least I thought so:-)
    What agravates (how do you spell check here?) me most is that I see no appreciation for what I do ( like yesterday's ski trip), no happiness afterwards. There is happiness before and during that activity, but afterwards I see this attitude like everything is so lame and so not worth the effort. This just about DRIVES ME NUTS.
    All I am after is for DS to learn how to control his negative feeling and negative attitude. Like I have indicated above, I will allow angry outbursts as long as they are followed by "I am sorry, I was out of line, and then withdrawl for a while to compose oneself.

    Ania #11058 03/10/08 12:02 PM
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    Sorry to seem dense. smile I thought you were trying to get away from the privilege-removal and were trying something different.

    Have you tried "catching him being good"? That tends to work around here--though, granted, with much younger kids--better than punishing the bad behavior.

    Just a thought.

    It can be hard if they are just always surly and hard to live with!


    Kriston
    Kriston #11065 03/10/08 12:18 PM
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    It can be hard if they are just always surly and hard to live with!
    But that is the thing - it is not always! It is a roller coaster!

    One thing that I have noticed is that the bahavior/bad attitude seems to be less of a problem when DS keeps very busy, working on a project, finishing something - in other words when his days are very structered. When there is more of a slow down, days are less intense and I forgo the daily routine (or strictness of it if you may), he falls apart and starts having attitude problems.

    I catch him being good Kriston frequently and I comment on his good, grown up behavior. There is not a lack of praising in this house, I assure you. I refuse however to become too emotionally (read verbally:-) involved when his attitude becomes terrible.

    Ania #11066 03/10/08 12:22 PM
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    Sure. Please don't take my comments as an assumption that you didn't say nice things. smile I just know that I personally tend to get stuck in "punish" mode, and the more frustrated I get, the more I have to remind myself that I'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

    Maybe more about me than you there...


    Kriston
    Ania #11169 03/11/08 05:27 AM
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    It is such a difficult time being a teenager, with hormones making you crazy, suddently the shirt labels matter...actually everything matters SO much (they're hyper sensitive). I find DS is better if he's been isolated from friends for the weekend (not on purpose, but if our family goes away). I don't think it's a reflection on his friends really. I love chatting with his friends while DS is also in the car and getting SO much information that DS has neglected to share.

    cym #11189 03/11/08 08:17 AM
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    I find DS is better if he's been isolated from friends for the weekend (not on purpose, but if our family goes away).

    Funny, I can make exactly the same observation.
    To followup on yesterdays (mis)behavior: DS came out of school like if nothing had happened, and when gently probbed, basically stated that DH was just really ticked off that morning (??) and DS did not feel like he has done anything to warrant him being removed from the class, but he did say that yes, he was not paying attention. He was his very nice self all afternoon and evening, did not text, did not use his I-pod even though we have spent almost an hour in the car going to an from violin lesson. He was reading instead:-) Does he already know that when I am ticked off I tend to confiscate his electronic devices and was he smart enough to not even show them to me? Probably, because as I did not see him "overusing" them, I did not take them away:-) To make things eve funnier, when we got back home in the evening, he started working on his AoPS problems without any prompting. We did not comment, but DS said that he will spend some time doing this since there was no homework. Bizzare teenagers :-)

    Ania #13151 04/05/08 08:11 PM
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    Does this count as a necro here?

    Anyway, I'm kinda upset that no one's mentioned depression or anxiety as a possible cause of irritability. I remember last school year (age 15-16), I called my father a couple of times out of desperation and a need for help--I thought my heart was beating wrong or I was hearing voices--and to express my utter apathy toward school, and it always ended in arguments where I threw the phone across the room. Plus, I get sensory overload or something especially when I've been through a lot of stress and I can't be polite because I'm barely not spazing out--this Christmas, I was opening gifts at my father's house and by the time I got to a couple pairs of pajamas, I couldn't express gratitude because the texture freaked me out and the best I could do was put them out of sight for a while and scrape my fingertips on teeth while speaking with my whole body rigid and expressive with energy.

    I've learned to recover pretty quickly from being overwhelmed by things, and the overload has lessened with age, but I think that's definitely a factor in kids seeming to have an attitude. Letting your kid know they can and should apologize or make up for outbursts or periods when they had to cocoon for a while and that that's more important than not being rude in the first place is a good idea to keep serious fractures from developing in the relationship.

    Clarity #13163 04/06/08 05:08 AM
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    Good Point Clarity, and thanks for your imput. I think that a lot of kids, but not all, find that the old oversensitivites that used to be sort-of-ok kick up again in the tween/teen years.

    DS and I are trying to work out a code for when the overload hits so that I know what is going on, and that's helped a lot. I know that for myself, when I feel really bad, I don't expect to have to post an anouncement about it, but that I actually do have to say something or no one will notice until I'm acting really mean.

    What I wish I knew is this - OT (occupational therapy)for SID (sensory integration disorder) really helped my son when he was little, age 7, but is there a cooler version for tween/teenagers? I remember really liking certian amusement park rides that provided that squished feeling, but is there a daily something to improve 'sensory diet?'

    Love and More Love,
    Grinity


    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com
    Grinity #13170 04/06/08 06:01 AM
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    That's so interesting, Clarity. I can definitely see it for my DS at times, though I think things are getting better (only 34 more days of school...). I believe he has been depressed this year because
    1)school is boring, even honors classes have assignments that he thinks are busy work (not meaningful, in-depth study),
    2)new big school environment (coming from small, sheltered middle school),
    3)the "cool" factor (suddenly clothing is important)
    4)juggling afterschool activities, missing lots of school due to sports tournaments, being unable to clearly communicate with teachers for make up work, too much going on.

    Hopefully things are coming together. I try to be helpful, supportive, but sometimes the more I try, the more I annoy (or seem to alienate or something) DS. DH says Keep it Simple. He says stick to main point when talking to DS and give him time to digest and then let him come to me. That HAS worked better.

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