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    EandCmom #7684 01/22/08 05:38 PM
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    Originally Posted by EandCmom
    I have bad feelings about that book because a friend read it and has taken it to mean that correcting her children at all is stifling their "masculinity" and that it is ok for them to act awful because "boys will be boys". Also, her husband has taken this to mean any type of creative task assigned at school is trying to make a girl out of his son.

    acs since you and kimck have recommended it, it makes me think that this is probably not the point the book was trying to make. I think boys can be masculine and "manly" without being completely rude and out of control. My kids want to wrestle all the time but the problem is someone always winds up hurt and crying. So I'd rather they'd not wrestle - but not because I care about that type of play, but because they don't seem to be able to handle it. I also love them doing creative type things at school and at home and don't think this will make them any less masculine. Anyway, maybe I should give this book a try and see what I get out of it. smile


    I thought the book was good. As for your friend, you might tell her, "yes, boys will be boys, but we are trying to raise them to be men!"

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    Ooh! I like that, OHGrandma! Good one! laugh


    Kriston
    Kriston #7697 01/23/08 07:45 AM
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    As for your friend, you might tell her, "yes, boys will be boys, but we are trying to raise them to be men!"

    LOL OHGrandma!!!! I hate the old "boys will be boys" or "girls just behave that way". It's usually used to excuse some type of bad behavior and deficient parenting skills (IMHO!!!). It's so hard because so many people don't think they should have to make their children behave because it will hurt their self-esteem. I read a great article that said self-esteem isn't what we need to be so worried about these days, but rather teaching self-control. I really thought that was great! smile

    EandCmom #7699 01/23/08 08:33 AM
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    Originally Posted by EandCmom
    .... It's so hard because so many people don't think they should have to make their children behave because it will hurt their self-esteem. I read a great article that said self-esteem isn't what we need to be so worried about these days, but rather teaching self-control. I really thought that was great! smile

    ooooohhhhhh, now you got me started on a pet-peeve, 'self-esteem'! When I was in my 20's, during the 1970's, I had started to buy into the theory that 'low self-esteem is the reason why criminals commit crimes'. Then we had a guest speaker at church who was a chaplain at a state penitentiary(and still volunteers in his 90's!). He said, "low self-esteem is not the average criminal's problem, it's a false sense of HIGH self-esteem". I came to understand and believe him during the years after that.
    Allowing a child to behave badly, speak disrespectfully, etc., reinforces a childs' primal belief that the world revolves around the child. As a helpless, newborn infant, the baby should be the center of his universe; but as the baby grows he should learn the whole universe does not revolve around him and he must respect others. Self-control, respect for others; these character traits help build a healthy self-esteem.
    OK, back to the topic...adolescent angst...making that final seperation from being a child and under the parent's authority to becoming an automonous adult has it's perils. Even in very reclusive communities(thinking of Amish), some children stray from the path set before them by the adults. In families where the choices are almost unlimited, it can overwhelm the adolescent starting to make those choices.
    I think the human race would have died out centuries ago if children arrived at or just before the adolescent stage, hahaha. By the time those cute, cuddly babies reach adolescence, you get kind of attached to them!

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    Originally Posted by OHGrandma
    Allowing a child to behave badly, speak disrespectfully, etc., reinforces a childs' primal belief that the world revolves around the child. As a helpless, newborn infant, the baby should be the center of his universe; but as the baby grows he should learn the whole universe does not revolve around him and he must respect others.

    I think this is exactly right.

    I always say that if a kid doesn't get limits--never hears a "no" that s/he can trust to mean *no*--then the child never learns to trust a parent's "yes" or "I love you" either.

    Dependable is dependable, even when dependable means saying "no."



    Kriston
    Kriston #7702 01/23/08 10:54 AM
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    Originally Posted by Kriston
    I always say that if a kid doesn't get limits--never hears a "no" that s/he can trust to mean *no*--then the child never learns to trust a parent's "yes" or "I love you" either.

    Dependable is dependable, even when dependable means saying "no."


    Excellent point. Who trusts the words of someone you don't respect, and how can you respect someone you don't trust?

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    My DS13 can be wonderful and can be difficult/unreachable, back and forth. Such a roller coaster! Just venting.

    Had to resurrect this thread b/c of a phone call I got this am from DH.
    DH does math club on Monday A.M. at kid's school. DS was so full of "attitude" this A.M. that he had to kick him out of the classroom. Literally. DS wanted to come back in after a while but DH would not let him, he just said "stay out please".

    Like Cym wrote in some of her posts, it is such a roller coaster. One day (or one minute) DS can be very responsible and very mature and then suddenly act as a total jerk. Like yesterday - both kids play their instruments at mass - he was so mature, so well responding to other people in church, so well dressed and may I say that he dresses himself now (you know what I mean) and he can really look like a very propper, very preppy boy. He likes wearing nice shoes, jackets, will not leave the house without a belt etc.
    Because he had quite a busy weekend up to that point, I asked if he wanted to go skiing in the afternoon. Of course he did, so I took DS and his buddy (had to drive to pick him up) up the mountain for the afternoon. In the evening, when we got back - a totally different boy! Full of attitude, evasive, twisting the truth etc. And obviously this attitude continues today.
    My first reaction to incidents like this is taking away priviliges like cell phone, i-pod, laptop, till behavior improves. I tried reasoning and kind of adult to adult talk, but I get instant improvement when I take priviliges away (it is like he can't survive without texting), so I tend to do it.
    He has a B-day coming up this weekend. He will be 13. He has been asking for a guitar since he was 8 or 9 years old, we have always said that he will get one when he is a teenager. There is an electric guitar waiting form him, hidden in the basement, but I am of course having second thoughts.
    I am just venting, I know that it REALLY is a roller coaster and that he will be nice and obedient again in 24 hours or less and than again this change of attitude in a day or two.
    I do allow him to talk to me when he is angry or irritated and walk away to distance himself. I do this and have told my kids over and over again that I will accept something like that when emotions are flying high. But it is slowly changing into this love you one day/ hate you tomorrow attitude .

    Ania #11053 03/10/08 10:59 AM
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    Ugh. Sorry, Ania.

    How are you approaching this attitude problem? What's your strategy?

    The whole thought of this sort of thing makes my teeth ache. Ick.


    Kriston
    Kriston #11057 03/10/08 11:55 AM
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    Like I said ^^ I take priviliges away, which gets me two things:
    anger from my child directed at me and an almost instant improvement in behavior.
    I also talk, and talk, and talk. I make sure I let my kids have opinions, as I grew up in a house that I could not have one, or at least I thought so:-)
    What agravates (how do you spell check here?) me most is that I see no appreciation for what I do ( like yesterday's ski trip), no happiness afterwards. There is happiness before and during that activity, but afterwards I see this attitude like everything is so lame and so not worth the effort. This just about DRIVES ME NUTS.
    All I am after is for DS to learn how to control his negative feeling and negative attitude. Like I have indicated above, I will allow angry outbursts as long as they are followed by "I am sorry, I was out of line, and then withdrawl for a while to compose oneself.

    Ania #11058 03/10/08 12:02 PM
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    Sorry to seem dense. smile I thought you were trying to get away from the privilege-removal and were trying something different.

    Have you tried "catching him being good"? That tends to work around here--though, granted, with much younger kids--better than punishing the bad behavior.

    Just a thought.

    It can be hard if they are just always surly and hard to live with!


    Kriston
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