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    #78190 - 06/15/10 05:09 AM Re: Brain Balance Center? [Re: twogirlsdad]
    Iucounu Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/02/10
    Posts: 1457
    You started by attacking detractors of this unproven Brain Balance system. That alone tends to show bias, to me. You later stated that Brain Balance is based on (or is) "accepted science", when it doesn't seem to be in reality. You then muddied the waters by writing of delineating left-brain/right-brain processing differences, which was correctly pointed out to be irrelevant.

    Multiple people have explained problems with your approach (depending on self-reported or anecdotal evidence, claiming that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, etc.), and yet you seem not to understand, over and over. It's quite simple: one runs the risk of falling prey to scams by believing in things without proof. As others have stated, the field is rife with crackpot science (I personally don't have experience but believe it).

    That's why people have a "show me" attitude. Any reasonable person who's watched an infomercial or two knows not to depend on glowing end-user reports alone. When scientists in a field also discount those glowing reports, I listen. And when a self-described layperson making scientific claims resorts to ridiculing someone with in-depth knowledge, my opinion of the layperson goes down, not up-- no offense.

    You seem to be an excessively trusting person, if everything you are saying is true. I personally would trust an expert. But I certainly understand how someone can grasp at any source of seeming help when one's child has a problem.


    Edited by Iucounu (06/15/10 05:12 AM)
    _________________________
    Striving to increase my rate of flow, and fight forum gloopiness. sick

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    #78198 - 06/15/10 06:46 AM Re: Brain Balance Center? [Re: Kriston]
    MegMeg Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/14/10
    Posts: 615
    Hi Kriston,

    Okay, now I get where you're coming from. The types of examples you're talking about are a whole different kettle of fish. Zero cost, zero harm, and easy, so why not give it a try? Also, definitely some surface plausibility. We know so little about the effects on our bodies of recently-invented chemicals. And finally, it's the kind of thing that is so easy to implement that anecdotal evidence starts to be worth considering. Ordinary people can execute their own "A-B-A-B" design (alternating control condition and treatment) and observe the effects.

    That doctor sounds like a jerk. Regular doctors, the type who just see patients, aren't actually trained as scientists. They're basically just technicians. And they vary a lot in how savvy they are about evidence, etc. Some of them (like in the discussion of teachers going on in another thread!) have a lot of ego invested in being the authority. And to be fair, some of them are just sick to death of patients coming in and saying, "I read on the internet that blah blah blah [insert thoroughly discredited idea here], so why should I take my pills?" So they have a knee-jerk reaction. Which doesn't make it right, just maybe a little more understandable.

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    #78199 - 06/15/10 07:58 AM Re: Brain Balance Center? [Re: MegMeg]
    kcab Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/02/07
    Posts: 1603
    Loc: Sparta, apparently
    Originally Posted By: MegMeg
    That doctor sounds like a jerk. Regular doctors, the type who just see patients, aren't actually trained as scientists. They're basically just technicians. And they vary a lot in how savvy they are about evidence, etc. Some of them (like in the discussion of teachers going on in another thread!) have a lot of ego invested in being the authority. And to be fair, some of them are just sick to death of patients coming in and saying, "I read on the internet that blah blah blah [insert thoroughly discredited idea here], so why should I take my pills?" So they have a knee-jerk reaction. Which doesn't make it right, just maybe a little more understandable.
    Yes, I wanted to say this too, doctors are not necessarily scientists.

    I'd go further than MegMeg in this as I have seen examples at very high levels in the medical profession. Not such that it is endangering, but more in that the approach to data can be biased. This can be encountered in any research; it is always a good idea to think carefully about how the research was carried out and what assumptions were made. Unfortunately, it may be wise to consider how money and power influence results as well.
    _________________________
    kcab

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    #78201 - 06/15/10 08:30 AM Re: Brain Balance Center? [Re: kcab]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    But doctors/psychologists/technicians are the people most of us turn to for scientific answers. They're our filter for scientific info. And many of them are, indeed, ego-invested jerks who accept happily that lack of peer-reviewed evidence = debunking. It does not. This doctor was no more jerky than any other I've been to, and really, he was a lot less than most. At least he took the time to listen to my question and answered with respect. Most want to write the scrip and get out.

    I think you're very right, kcab, that money and power have a lot to do with it. I think it's in the doctors' interest to medicalize problems whenever possible.

    We are considering vision therapy. I'm not diving in without careful consideration, of course, but I'm also not willing to write it off because it hasn't been studied well enough. Every treatment or therapy was new once.

    I'm doing what I can to figure out what exactly is going on with DS6 before we spend a dime, of course. But I have enough anecdotal evidence from people I trust to think that it might be worth the money *if* he has a specific sort of problem and *if* we don't have to spend a lot, even if what he's getting from it is a specific sort of attention from a specialist more than a real "treatment."

    Caveat Emptor, basically. Even with medicine.
    _________________________
    Kriston

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    #78205 - 06/15/10 09:14 AM Re: Brain Balance Center? [Re: Kriston]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3296
    Loc: California
    Twogirlsmom doesn't strike me as being a troll. And honestly, some of what I've read in this thread comes across as condescending, whether it was meant that way or not.

    TGM, if you're looking for people who've used the centers, it seems that no one here has.

    I think people here are suspicious of what they see as an unproven, yet widely advertised medical treatment. The BB Center's website looks nice, and the parental testimonies all sound great. But the thing is that the BB Center is hardly going to publish lots of critical reports. This means that you probably need to do some more digging if you want to find all sides of the story.

    Here's an example of something you could look into: I couldn't find anything saying that they accept insurance. I could be wrong; maybe insurance companies do reimburse them. But if the insurance companies won't reimburse for treatment there, well, that's not a good sign. Alternatively, if the insurance companies do cover the costs of treatment, that's a better sign.

    You could also call state medical associations to ask about them.


    Here's a thread with a lot of concerns similar to the ones voiced here. Note that the person who's thinking about using the BB Center is frustrated with conventional medicine. This, plus the big promises the centers make, is a common tactic used by people who are trying to take your money:

    * You're vulnerable
    * You're frustrated with conventional approaches
    * We can make your problem disappear! No one else can!

    This is why people here and on the other thread are so suspicious. Honestly, if I was going to make a recommendation a new or different medical treatment (especially for a child), I'd start on the suspicious side EVERY time, even if I was being handed an FDA approved pill. I'd still check it out. Actually, I even tend to check out a lot of well-known stuff too. But that's just me.


    Val


    Edited by Val (06/15/10 09:19 AM)

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    #78209 - 06/15/10 09:36 AM Re: Brain Balance Center? [Re: Val]
    cricket3 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/09
    Posts: 693
    Thanks, Val- well said.

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    #78239 - 06/15/10 11:58 AM Re: Brain Balance Center? [Re: cricket3]
    Mark D. Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/31/69
    Posts: 271
    I'm going to close this thread because I think everything has been covered here. One of the posts on here was removed because it was inappropriate for this forum, and the poster was warned that they will be banned if they post in that manner again. However, nobody will be banned yet, because up until the inappropriate post, I didn't see anything wrong. If I do find that a poster is spamming and here just to sell their organization or a product, then i certainly will ban them and put an end to them posting here.

    I would also like to remind everyone to be respectful of all posters and to not "talk down" to anyone, whether they have been here for a while or are new.

    Thank you and please contact me via Private Message if you have any questions.

    Best regards,
    Mark

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