Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Where do I even begin?! Except. gifted preschooler

Allison,

So Awesome!!!!!! This is such a good story to hear. I'm glad you trusted your instincts.
What to do next? Formulate a plan and be ready to change it at anytime!!
I think I wanted a manual for my girls, but no one can give it to me. And the one I'm currently writing on my experiences won't work for anyone else!
I think you will know what to do when you get the results from the WJ.
My DD5 seems similar to your DS.
I did put her in kindergarten this year, but it's only a half day. I consider it her public school vaccination. Just enough to get her acclimated, not enough to kill her!
I held my breath and truly expected the worse.
Amazingly, she loves it. We had a little rough patch with the kindergarten teacher, but we've worked it out. DD gets pulled out with 3 others twice a week and she loves it.
I volunteer quite a bit (ie: get a good chance to covertly spy on my girls) and it's remarkable to watch her.
She has this totally focused look on her face, she's all business, trying to figure out all the social stuff.
We're very happy now, but it goes month to month, year to year, teacher to teacher.
So, plan for the best and expect the worst.
You should have all your bases covered, then.

Congrats,
Incog

Wow Allison,
Great News!
I'm so glad your tester is on your wavelength! That's a wonderful price. I would ask her to do the WJ achievement, and some above-level achievement tests that will work for the Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual, such as

ITBS/Explore/ACT/CAT

these are tests that are usually used at grade level as an acheivement test, but if you administer them 2 years ahead of the intended age, and score above 75percentile for the older kids, thats up to 10 additional points on your Iowa Acceleration Scale.

All that info together will help you be sure that a skip into first at the public school.

Alternativly, you can see if the Montessori will place him in the 6-7-8 room with the understanding that he will be there for as long or short as it takes him to complete the highest level of work they have. Obviously he won't be there for three years, but that doesn't mean it's not a good choice for one year. Ruf estimated level III and up kids tend to be hard to place academically, so instead of looking for the big solution, look for "this year, and maybe next."

I call this the Goldilocks problem. Last year DS11 was totally swamped organizationally at his new school with the grade skip and middle school and all. This year he is back to his old tricks of completing his homework in study halls, and 75% of the time doing scary wonderful, and 25% or less totally blowing the organizational parts. That's a big jump, and I'm starting to think that by next year he'll be back to sleepwalking. Why can't he have a nice even, calm existience? Too easy, too hard, where is my just right?

Best Wishes Allison,
I'm so pleased for your family!
Trinity

Both are good choices.

The two things K often (though not always) has going for it are 1) it's often only a half-day program, so the child can be in a school setting part of the day and still have time and energy for his own projects the other part of the day, and 2) it's often focused on the social and the exploratory rather than the strictly academic.

#2 might sound contrary to what you want for a HG+ kid, but for a kid greatly advanced in academics, getting the social without being subjected to a lot of academic stuff that he already knows can work nicely. Our DS6 was very happy in half-day K with a good teacher who recognized and enjoyed his abilities, differentiated what work there was, but mostly let him do his own thing as much as she could. Then the other half of the day he pursued his more academic projects at home. He was very happy.

Our problematic year was 1st grade. YMMV, naturally, but since 1st grade is the big push-to-read year around here, it was the year DS6 had trouble. From what I've read, this is pretty common.

Check out what K and 1st grade are doing in your area. If your schools are like ours and K is play while 1st grade is the learn-to-read year, then I'd probably recommend doing K this coming year with plenty of at-home enrichment and skipping 1st grade the following year.

But follow your gut and the guidance of this tester, since she seems like a good guide for you and she knows the schools. If you think he needs more from school now, then do it!

Oh, and as for Montessori--really check out the program. Some are great, but we got into one that was very lock-step about requiring the completion of activity 1 before our son could go on to activity 2. (Even though before we enrolled him, I told them he was reading books and asked if he would have to complete all the pre-reading activities first...They just lied!) That meant that he was supposed to be doing letter ID activities that he could have done when he was not yet 2! His response: he just never did anything in the language arts section of the room. Not good.

My much-too-gentle advocacy for him was ineffective. It wasn't until our January conference--after a mid-term evaluation that TOTALLY missed the boat on DS6's abilities--when my DH and I together insisted upon changes that things finally changed. The teachers reluctantly let DS6 skip the "easy stuff," and he did a week's worth of (still too easy) LA activities in a day. They moved him on to reading fast after that, but I saw how bad it can be to have rigid rules in place about what activities kids must do.

A friend of mine had a similar sort of problem with her highly asynchronous kid at a different Montessori program, so I know that ours wasn't the only one like that. Just beware. Having a bunch of levels of materials in the room does a child no good if he isn't allowed to use any of it!

Thank you, all!! I appreciate your feedback! I will certainly mention those tests, Trinity, that you have suggested and will discusee them with our tester.

And, Kriston, you bring up some really good points about Montessori programs. I am really leaning towards not even trying it again. I think our particular school is very similar to what you are describing. DS was asked to join the kindergarteners a year early on the first day of school. However, I was informed that even if he did all the work acceptably, this year would not actually "count" as kindergarten. I was completely appalled by this but did not voice my feelings, because I felt that surely they would allow him to start the lower elementary program after they saw what he could do in kindergarten. But...now I'm not so sure. I even felt a bit of resistance from the head master when I discussed DS's results with her the other day. She reminded me that starting first grade a year early should not only be based upon academic ability, but social development, as well, blahblahbalbhalbh. You know the rest. And thank you for your insights regarding perhaps skipping first grade. I have not thought about it that way. You make some very good arguments. I will definitely have to check out our local system.

Incog, I think a half day of K would be pretty fabulous. Unfortunately, around here, it's a full day for the little guys. I've heard that this school district is typically more "advanced" than the rest of the city. But that's just the local rumor. I need to investigate and see for myself what is actually happening. And I really appreciate your advice to be flexbile! I guess we are learning early how important that is! I really never expected to withdraw him from school. It's interesting, though. Even my extended family is noticing a difference in him. He just seems happier.

I do have a few more questions for you guys.

1. What are your thoughts about a 140 on the SB-V? I'd love some perspective, particularly on the 140 - 150 range. I know we hit several 19's. I don't know exactly how many, because our tester has not put together a full review. This was just a quick score at the end of the session. (By the way - an interesting note
: our tester initially said it would take about 1.5 hours to test. We ended up spending almost 5 hours over 2 days because DS kept moving up a level and having to go thrugh the subtests again. I KNOW he was tired/uninterested/bored at times. That's a long time for a four year old to sit still and test. We did have at least 3 or 4 five minute breaks each session, though.)

2.How reliable/valid do you think it is for a 4 year old?

This is all very new to me. This was the test she recommended, so I just went with it. Especially since we are having several assessments done.

I think his lowest score was in the "knowledge" section. Which is very interesting, I guess, and somewhat encouraging/scary depending on how you look at it. If he hit 19's on some of the test ( I believe "routing" is one of the major ones?) then one would expect the score to go up, because knowledge should increase with age. However, logical sequencing/patterning/routing should stay the same. She encouraged me to bring him back in 6 to 12 months, after we have time to exlore home schooling, and redo the SB-V.

Do you think this is a good idea? Should we go for those extra 5 points to hit the 99.9th? Especially if she is ranging him at 140 to 150? And am I even interpreting this correctly? I'm just starting to understand how one test cetainly does NOT give the big picture.

I guess I'm still not exactly sure what the DYS program is all about. I do know that one must have a 145 to even apply, and that five years is the youngest age eligible.

OK. I know I'm rambling a bit. Sorry! It's late, my DD baby still isn't sleeping through the night, and I'm feeling this incredibly huge responsibility not to fail my son. I know you guys understand.

Again, I am so very grateful for your advice.

Thank you!!

Allison

Allison,

OT: How old is DD? Lots of High IQ kids are terrible sleepers. What hasn't worked so far? You must be exhausted!

If your tester will be around, and only charges 300$, then I would definitly do over in 6 to 12 months.

How many Parents here have Montessori Schooled Kids with lower than expected "knowledge subtests?" I don't know what it means, and I'm not at all sure it's bad, but I sure do see a pattern. I didn't do Montessori, for fear of the practice, although the theory sounds great, and I sure love the idea of an independent learner.

Allison,
In some ways, letting the child do work at their readiness level, without giving them credit and forcing a skip is very appealing. For a competitive/athletic child, imagine being allowed to take Middle School Math/Science and LA, while staying with their elementary agemates for art, music and gym, and being able to be on teams with their agemates. Ironically, around here, a lot of DS11's friends play on teams with older grade children. It's called "playing up" and a great honor.

Personally, I'll take the documented gradeskip for my particular DS, as he has 'grade loyalty' and I can't risk having to fight my battles over again.

Yes, dear, flexibility is key.
and
No, dear, I can't picture him going back to his old school.

Having a demanding DD may be a benifit to your homeschooling, as it will be a built in pressure for DS to be somewhat responsible and somewhat independent, in a good way.

Smiles,
Grinity

My DS took about 4 hours on this test at age 10. He did it without breaks and was very tired and hungry when he was done. she said he seemed to be holding up fine, but I always wondered if he would do better if he had had a snack and a run around the building.

Routing, I think, is the first book, which tells how high to place the next round of tests. I don't think it give a score in its own right.

Knowledge is less what you learn in school and what you observe on your own. DS gave me expamples which I cannot share here, but at least some of the questions involved looking at pictures and saying what is wrong with the picture, such as basic laws of physics; they can get get pretty subtle.

I would probably choose an achievement test over a repeat of the SB5 until say he is 7 or so. That one 150 is enough to meet minimum for DYS; you don't need the FSIQ if either of the VIQ or NVIQ is >145.

DS6 took the SB5 in Oct. The tester said that kids who are more verbal than visual tend to have trouble with the knowledge questions on the SB5. (Mine did, and that's how I found out that he's verbal instead of visual, despite his affinity for puzzles and mazes.)

The knowledge questions on the SB5 are apparently couched as "what's wrong/silly in this picture". It's very observational kinds of stuff in the world around you, things you'd know from experience, not so much facts per se. To make one up off the top of my head (and if this is on the test, it's purely a lucky guess!): someone drops something off a building and it "falls" up instead of down.

It doesn't really seem to me to be "knowledge" like we'd usually think of knowledge, if that helps, though I wouldn't know of a better term for it either...

I finally read this this whole thread. It has been so helpful to me. I also just read through the Advocacy for Exceptionally Gifted Young People. Feel lucky that I do live in NYC because of the school options.

I understood that you couldn't do a SB again for 12 months, at least for acceptance where required.

Our daughter did some modified version that the gifted prechool at Columbia required. We couldn't do the SB now since she has to do it in October for Kindergarten application in 2009. And I think you have to be 4.

I have also heard, that IQs can change quite a bit through the early years. The Advocacy paper suggests not even testing until post 6 years. Hunter requires retesting after 6th grade because they have found that young children testing as gifted can normalize and others will now test gifted.

Most people write about homeschooling. Does anyone have experience with gifted elementary schools out there?

Ren