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    #7146 - 01/13/08 06:14 AM LOG discussion
    Lorel Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/22/07
    Posts: 970
    Loc: New England
    Hmm, I'm not sure how to get started on this. I am slightly uncomfortable with this situation:

    DS 11 and his friend M, age 13, both took part in an academic competition. DS placed higher, by a significant margin. M did VERY well, placing far above the national average. But he compared his performance to DS, and he thinks he stinks. I talked to the boy's mother and sent her links to the national stats. She seems to understand that her son did ok for himself, but he is still upset. I am not sure if I should make any other attempt to clarify things. Talking about LOG would be awkward, as I cannot imagine saying, "M, you are G, but DS is PG!" My instinct is to let it go, but I feel bad for M. He is a really sweet guy and doesn't appear jealous at all- just sad that he didn't score in the top two percent where he is used to scoring on grade level tests.

    Any thoughts? Why does this bother me so much? Isn't it good for kids to learn to live with disappointments?

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    #7147 - 01/13/08 08:33 AM Re: LOG discussion [Re: Lorel]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    Not when you love 'em! And I think it's especially hard to watch a kid feel bad about himself for circumstances utterly beyond his control.

    I'm not sure there's any more you can do about this, but if I were M's mom, I would be having a long talk about doing the best YOU can do and not worrying about what others can do. Unfortunately, I don't think that's a talk you can really have with someone else's child.

    Is there anything M is better at than your DS? Maybe a subtle nudge in that direction for the two of them might reassure M?

    I'm sorry!
    _________________________
    Kriston
    Mom to DS13 and DS10

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    #7150 - 01/13/08 09:05 AM Re: LOG discussion [Re: Kriston]
    incogneato Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/25/07
    Posts: 2231
    Loc: up in my head.......
    I understand the unusual feeling associated with this. Last year in 1st grade DD7 was made to be teacher's TA unbeknownst to me and I did not like it when I did find out. Anyway her BFF was behind for 1st, so teacher sat the two together so "they could help each other", which DD loved. I found out the first week of summer that DD and BFF had incorrectly assumed that BFF was going to be held back. Both girls recognized the disparity between their abilities and incorrectly assumed that DD was "normal" and BFF was severely behind, which obviously wasn't the case.
    Imagine both girls huddled together during class trying to develop strategies so BFF wouldn't "flunk" first grade.
    Interestingly, DD kept saying she was "doomed" the first two weeks of summer and I finally found out she thought BFF would flunk and it would be her fault because she couldn't teach her to do math the same way she could do it.
    It was a mess, but I think we straightened it out. Of course BFF didn't flunk but they aren't in the same class this year, which is probably good, but severly dissapointing to DD.
    (hands up in the air) These situations are so obscure and uncommon, you can't predict them and I'm still not sure if I handled it well.
    (shrug)
    smile

    I

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    #7152 - 01/13/08 09:21 AM Re: LOG discussion [Re: incogneato]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    Oh, how awful, Incog! What a mess!
    _________________________
    Kriston
    Mom to DS13 and DS10

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    #7155 - 01/13/08 11:36 AM Re: LOG discussion [Re: Dottie]
    EandCmom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/09/07
    Posts: 516
    Lorel, here is my 2cents. I think your sharing the stats with the mom is enough. If you continue to pursue it with M's mother or with M it may just look like you are trying to stress how PG your own son is. I was trying to put myself in M's mom's place and I think if after you'd already explained the situation to me, you came back to explain some more and tell me how PG your own son is, I would question your motives. Now, having seen your posts here, I know you would only have M's best interests at heart, but I don't know that his mother would understand that. I guess it depends on how well you know her. At any rate, I think you've done enough and should leave it alone unless they bring it up to you. M may not completely understand but it sounds like his mom gets it so she can try to explain.

    Dottie your situation is very different because all the kids live in your house!!! I am sure it is very difficult for you but I know you are doing all you can to help all your kids. Which is all any of us can do. smile

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    #7160 - 01/13/08 12:19 PM Re: LOG discussion [Re: Dottie]
    LMom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/14/07
    Posts: 902
    May be you can find something M can do better than your son: sports, arts, music .... and point that out to him without mentioning the competition.
    _________________________
    LMom

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    #7209 - 01/14/08 09:06 AM Re: LOG discussion [Re: Lorel]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Originally Posted By: Lorel
    She seems to understand that her son did ok for himself, but he is still upset.


    Hi Lorel,
    ((waving wildly))
    What a pity!

    I guess the main thing I would worry about is that the mom doesn't know that her son is upset. If she knows, then she can try to help, if he's shielding her, then you have more of a duty to do something.

    I'm not sure how this might help, but I try to use myself as an example of a happy, successful person, able to contribute to others in many ways, who isn't PG. I also share what it was like for me to discover in college, that I wasn't the top scorer. I guess I also had the frustration of recognizing that although I wasn't in the strongest group academically, I still had to hunt for friends who could appreciate my way of viewing the world. Personally, it was always easy to swallow not being as bright as X, Y and Z as long as I had them to talk about movies and poems with. It was harder to swallow not being as academically able as A, B, and C, who's only interests were the usual college distractions.

    If I dared try to talk to the friend myself, I would ask him what it 'means' to be able to score the top 5% on all tests, even the talent searches. I think that many gifted children, in particular, come to view themselves as only worthy if they are 'on top.' Since I believe that every human being is infinitely valuble, and has an important contribution to make, even if I never know what it is, or understand the big picture, I enjoy the teachable moments like this. I wish I could talk the more clearly, but this is the best I've got for now.

    Love and More Love,
    Grinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #7214 - 01/14/08 09:26 AM Re: LOG discussion [Re: incogneato]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Originally Posted By: incogneato
    I found out the first week of summer that DD and BFF had incorrectly assumed that BFF was going to be held back. Both girls recognized the disparity between their abilities and incorrectly assumed that DD was "normal" and BFF was severely behind, which obviously wasn't the case.
    ...It was a mess, but I think we straightened it out. Of course BFF didn't flunk but they aren't in the same class this year, which is probably good, but severly dissapointing to DD.
    (hands up in the air) These situations are so obscure and uncommon, you can't predict them and I'm still not sure if I handled it well.
    (shrug)
    smile

    I

    Oh 'Neato!
    This style of parenting isn't for the faint of heart! I'm sure you handled it as well as possible, and it sure is humbling to know that they are so unpredictable. Laser-like perceptions, and lack of world experience sure come together in interesting ways!

    Interesting that this should happen to you, of all people, with you backround of needing to hide. I speculate that I've had more freedom to explain LOG openly, because of how I was raised. Basically my mom had developed the positon that she is normal, and what a shame that she is surrounded by stupid people, who are just being stupid on purpose. I figured that I wanted to take a different approach, and I couldn't do much worse than that. (Srry Mom, you've got a lot of great qualities, this just wasn't one of them!)

    I held out until DS was age of 8 before I had the LOG talk. He was going to a gifted summer program, and I couldn't bear to have him feel left out in a place labled 'gifted.' Luckily that didn't happen! I think that in HG/PG families, like the birds and the bees, it's one of those talks that no one wants to have, but needs to be had on a regular basis, for everyone's protection. I run it as a talk about statistics, bell curve, and throw in a bit of philosophy about the limitations of IQ tests. Luck me that my audience of one is one of those kids who is gifted in the particular ways that made him ready to hear me so young. Dear Ones - Don't freak out if your PG kid just isn't interested at age 8, ok? That's his strength.

    Smiles,
    Grinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #7234 - 01/14/08 01:11 PM Re: LOG discussion [Re: Grinity]
    Lorel Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/22/07
    Posts: 970
    Loc: New England
    Thanks for all the feedback. It has been helpful to hear all of your stories and thoughts. I have decided that I have done my duty as far as sending Mom the stats and just let things be unless M or M's Mom brings it up again.

    FWIW, M regularly kicks my son's butt in karate. He's a foot taller and has been doing it much longer. So yes, he has his time in the sun, I suppose.

    The whole situation may be exacerbated by the fact that this boy is the firstborn in a large family, and recognized as, "the smart one". You know how those labels can bite you...

    My oldest DS actually had trouble with this when DS #2 came along. He was fine with little brother having other strengths, but he really struggled when he realized that little brother was also very gifted. We'd never consciously encouraged it, but oldest DS formed his identity around being "the smartest". Part of the issue with him is that he has AS and tends to think in very black and white terms. Therefore, if DS2 was gifted, and he did some things earlier than Ds1, was Ds1 still gifted?

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    #7236 - 01/14/08 01:18 PM Re: LOG discussion [Re: Lorel]
    Lorel Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/22/07
    Posts: 970
    Loc: New England
    Sometimes I forget how hard it is to be a child. They can be so fragile! I'm glad to be a grownup, and know that my worth doesn't hang by a thread based upon what I wear or who I talk to, or how I stack up in relation to anyone else.

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