Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment FSIQ vs. GAI

Another question.

Once I am past this meeting I hopefully won't have so many questions. And now I found out my DH can't attend, so I'm even more worried (I tend to get very tongue tied under stress).

I have a meeting with my DS's teacher and principal on Thursday and in speaking with my good friend (who works in education and has a masters in psychology) a very obvious roadblock popped up.

My son's WISC FSIQ is 136 but his GAI is 144. His comprehension subtest was low (compared to the other subtests in that area) and his working memory and processing speed were only in the high average category. My very well intentioned friend said "well, he is gifted, but it really isn't that stunning of a score, particularly in our school district." She is right in that our district is a very educated and high achieving demographic.

I am going to push for a 1-2 year subject acceleration in math (his SCAT percentiles - he is a 2nd grader so he is being compared to 4th graders, were 97% quant. and 88% in verbal) and hopefully some additional differentiation.

So, how do I explain that the GAI is a better indicator compared to FSIQ. I am very confident someone is going to say in the meeting - "well, he is moderately gifted but it isn't really that high of a score and he will be fine with enrichment once it starts in 4th grade." It isn't that I think he is PG, but I do think his GAI at 99.8% is a far better indicator of his abilities (esp. after seeing his SCAT scores) compared to his 99% FSIQ. And his SCAT scores are after basically not learning anything in school this year - if he was homeschooled I would guess he would have substantially more mastery.

Any suggestions?

Cat

First - the most basic. If you get tongue tied going into that type of meeting, be sure to write up some notes to work off of. I have found that helpful. I usually take my notes in on a pad of paper and check off the various points after I make them. I also take notes on what the teachers have to say - whether I care about it or not. It makes the point that I am listening. They like that.

As for the GAI versus FSIQ.... In my experience, school officials will look at what they have always looked at and are reluctant to see anything differently. Your most successful argument is probably to focus on the whole child - achievement test scores, FSIQ, and GAI. Ask if they are familiar with the GAI and give them the simplest overview you can find about what it means.

You may also be able to find something supporting the contention that the comprehension subtest is culturally biased and that many people question whether it belongs in an IQ test at all.

Good luck with the meeting. I hope it goes well. More often than not, we don't get what we want when we ask for it - but sometimes more sticks than we think. In October this year, a teacher mentioned to me some things he was doing with my children (now 4th and 6th grade) that I didn't know about. He got the idea from a PT conference we had a year and a half ago about my son. He listened and absorbed - and even though I didn't get what I asked for, I got more than I realized I had gotten.....

Mary

Have you seen this?
http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=2455
I'd have a copy with me and highlight the important points.

Mayreeh and Inky, thanks for all of these tips, very helpful. Cat

Even with a FSIQ at the 99th percentile, he is more than moderately gifted. Unless your community is a planned community of Intertel members or something, I can't imagine that those scores aren't that special in your area. A district of high achieving professional families will likely have more gifted kids than avg, but I'd be willing to bet that a lot of their kids fall around the 95th-98th percentile, not above.

With the achievement scores, I'd say that you have good data to support your request. Like others have mentioned, write up your notes first so you stay focused! What was his PRI score on the WISC? That's the part that most schools look at when identifying kids as gifted in math. If that was high, that might provide you further ammo. Good luck!

This is interesting - I do know that in his school something like 40% of the kids score over 90% on the state standardized test - but as you point out and as I should know after reading about above-grade testing that prob. doesn't give the full picture.

His PRI was 137 (99%). This plus his 97% on the SCAT suggest to me that a 1-2 year subject accleration in math makes a lot of sense. All I really want them to do is to adequately assess him to see where he should be, so that we have a good sense of whether he should go up 1 grade or 2 (my instinct is 2, but hard to tell, and based on prior conversations with his teacher, she seems to think he shouldn't accelerate unless he is already at the 90% at that grade, which of course makes no sense - I am bringing the "Developing Math Talent" book with me, and have copies of the page discussing assessment scores and what they mean). I am not sure the subject acceleration will address the pacing issues over the long haul, but it will certainly help a lot (and once he is done with 5th grade math there are a lot of levels starting in 6th grade that should address the pacing issues, assuming we can deal with scheduling between elementary and middle school, which is a whole other issue I am sure they will throw up as a roadblock).

I am going to suggest that they not make the acceleration until next year, but assess now and figure out the number of years to skip and then spend the rest of this year focusing on any gaps. Does that make sense - or do you think I should push to have him accelerated immediately.

Cat

It is pretty late in the year and I would, personally, be good with your first suggestion if it was my kid. However, I'd want in writing that they are going to follow through with the specific acceleration in the fall. I've seen too many times where the school agrees to future acceleration and then reneges.

If they are going to supplement this year with the intent of accelerating in the fall there should be a written agreement stating that he will be going to X grade for math in the fall & the supplements for the rest of this year will cover specific topics to prepare him for that. Otherwise you may wind up with a bunch of minimally useful enrichment activities for the rest of this year and then them saying that he hasn't made sufficient progress so they can't accelerate him after all come fall. Sorry for being a cynic !

So, I have decided to go with less to this meeting - although I will take my file with me in case I need to refer to something.

I am taking his SCAT and WISC scores, the page from the SCAT brochure about recommended accomodations for his level and also a page from NAGC that explains GAI. I intend to focus more on his SCAT and less on the WISC- as the school I think will be more receptive.

I am also going to offer two portions of article/books - one about above level testing (that just explains why we do it and how 5 kids who all score 98-99% on a grade level test may have very different skills/knowledge) and one about accomodating math talent.

That is it - I had made these binders with all kinds of stuff, but my DH and I just figured it would overwhelm them at this point and make them think we were over the top. But I can safely say I know the research in this area decently now, after reading for the last 6 months.

I also have an outline of what I want to say, and I've tried to keep it simple - explain problem, give evidence of his level, ask how we can work together to resolve and then listen. The last part is advocating what I want. I would like to believe they will offer something useful for him, but I am pretty skeptical.

Well, I think I am ready. I'll report once it is over. Cat