Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy here's a switch...

I have a student in my kindergarten class who's obviously gifted, but in a bit of a strange way. She isn't ahead at all academically, but her giftedness comes across in the way she approaches tasks and everyday interactions. For example, when I was showing her how to play a ring toss game one day, she watched the way I stood and put her feet in exactly the same positions before she threw. Another time, she got hold of my glasses and instead of trying them on like most kids would, she asked me what I saw without them.

Of course, after noticing things like this on virtually a daily basis for a few weeks, I decided to talk to her mother about getting her tested. I asked our principal to have the conversation for me when I realized that the mother's English might not be good enough for her to understand what I was saying. Imagine my surprise when the other day, the principal came back to me and said "So, they know their daughter's gifted, but they don't want her tested because they think that once she gets any idea she's special in any way, she'll become like a princess and start thinking she's better than everyone." (Yes, the "princess" bit is a direct quote from the mother.) My comment was that this is roughly equivalent to saying "Oh yeah, I know my kid's dyslexic, but don't help him!" But the principal told me to let the matter drop so we don't appear "pushy".

I'm used to it being teachers who think that so-called "social needs" (which they think they understand, but almost never do) have to come before intellectual ones, but here I am on the opposite side of the classic situation: I'm a teacher having to deal with a parent who doesn't want us to do anything for her daughter, or even acknowledge her abilities, because "it will be bad for her socially".

Thankfully, I know I can continue to differentiate subtly and challenge this student intellectually, as I've been doing from the start. But it just drives me crazy that a parent can make such a boneheaded decision, one which will possibly cause her daughter serious harm in years to come, and I just have to accept it.

Thank goodness she has a teacher like you now. Do you have any say on where she gets placed next year so she has another great teacher??? I hope so for her sake! Nan

We're a tiny school - 27 kids, four teachers - so there are no options for where they go, but thankfully I know that at least she'll still be in a small class with a teacher who can give her what she needs and I'll still get to interact with her quite a bit. Most of what I do to push her intellectually is outside of class time anyway - I think she probably learns a lot more at the lunch table than she does at her desk.

Hi Zhian,

I noticed that your location is Germany... Just curious, is your experience with this particular girl's parents typical in Germany? Even if she is identified, what kind of resources and/or opportunities are available for the gifted?

The feeling about education in Germany is definitely more "standardized" than in the States. There are no charter schools, private schools are rare and a lot of people are uncomfortable with them, and homeschooling is illegal. The only choice is between different types of high schools: Hauptschules (the least academic), Intermediate Schools (does just what it says on the tin), and Gymnasiums (means nothing like the English word - they're the top schools, preparing students for university). Gymnasiums don't really provide for gifted students; some aren't competitive at all and those that are take a lot of people who aren't gifted (and turn away plenty of gifted underachievers). So in general, there isn't much for a gifted child in Germany. All this suggests to me that culturally, it might be considered a bad thing for a child to be singled out as gifted, even though it's a source of pride for a child to be a high achiever and be accepted to a gymnasium.

My school, which is a very small international school (a very new concept in Germany), would basically have the opportunity to provide whatever we thought was necessary to a gifted pupil (as long as it didn't mean spending too much money). Since I'm the only person on staff with any experience or knowledge in working with gifted children I offered to take several hours of my non-teaching time every week to work with her should she be identified. Wasn't expecting it all to be moot, I guess.

the little girl is so lucky to have you.

Maybe you can model some "self-advocacy" for her and as she gets older she will bring her parents along...

Good for you for being "that" teacher!

Maybe the mother will come around ... denial is not unheard of, even on this board. Is the girl an only child? Maybe, as the mother gains more comparable information about her child vs. age peers, the dawn will break.

I have read quite a bit lately about cultural backlash among parents of gifted children in America, particularly among black and hispanic groups. I feel terrible for those children, who must feel so lonely and even disloyal.

Thanks, zhian! Good luck with this little girl. Totally agree that she is so lucky to have you! Where can we find more of you for our kids?

She's not an only child, but the oldest. Maybe as her brother gets older....

Growing up, I dealt with a lot of adults who were in denial about my giftedness and were never honest with me, and it's really not a good thing in the long term. It took years for me to be comfortable with being gifted and all that meant. I really hope she doesn't have to go through that.

As for wanting more of me, well, there aren't any (unless that cloning vat in my bathroom closet is finally working), but if I ever manage to wade through the mountain of paperwork it takes to get a green card, some gifted school in your part of the world will hopefully end up with the original....

hi zhian,

Reading your last post made me wonder... if you feel comfortable sharing.... how/what do you think your adults could have done to help you be more comfortable growing up as a gifted person? Or, what are some of the things that we as parents should not do/say to our gifted kids?

This is kind of personal... so, no pressure at all.

Thanks!
Mag

I think it happens a lot. It happened to me too. I do wonder if it happens more to girls? I don't know, I just wonder. My parents meant well, but they didn't really understand it.

At least she has you, don't underestimate how valuable that can be.

Well, GeoMamma, I was never a girl, so....

I think gender makes a difference with individual teachers/parents, but in different ways - don't know if you could say there's an overall trend. As a teacher I find it much easier to spot giftedness in girls.

Mag, my problems came in three varieties. First, there was my mother, who was the worst sort of authoritarian, the kind of parent who's controlling just for the sake of being controlling. I was a straight-A student, went to university at 16, never stayed out late, never touched drugs, was so disinterested in alcohol my father had to beg me to drink a toast to my own graduation, was a good driver, didn't even date in high school, basically a pretty easy kid to raise. But my mother thought I was an absolute terror because I talked back and questioned her stupid rules (one of my worst repeat offences: practicing my violin for 30 minutes instead of 40). Basically, she was completely unprepared to deal with raising a gifted child - she was too uncomfortable with the good things to acknowledge them properly, and constantly trying to assert dominance over a child who was naturally resistant.

Then there was my dad. He knew I was quite intelligent and he valued that. He taught me a lot, especially about history, and from the time I was ten we were having the sort of discussions that usually occur in graduate political science seminars. He was the one who saved me. But he didn't understand everything that went along with being gifted - the social, emotional, behavioral, and psychological differences between gifted and non-gifted people - so he couldn't help me there. And he didn't fight my mom enough, something he's told me he regrets many times since they divorced.

And then there were my teachers, who never once raised the issue of me being gifted. They were content to give me As and A+s and pretend I was just "doing well" rather than being left unchallenged. I supposed I should have learned to self-advocate more by the time I was in my fourth year of learning absolutely nothing, but I had no role models and no backup. Plus, the way we treat high achievers in our society can be addictive - the constant praise, the sky-high grades, but only if you shut up and take the boredom. They make you enjoy the easy road, and I fell for it.

Thing one I lacked was understanding. No matter how well my mom meant, she did a horrible job with me, and no matter how much better my dad was, he was stumbling around in the dark. My teachers, if they knew anything about giftedness, kept their mouths shut. So it seemed, at least, like nobody knew what was going on. And thing two was honesty. No one talked to me. Other kids called me "genius", yeah, but no adult actually sat me down and said "You're very intelligent, and it's rare, this is how it came to be, and it doesn't mean you don't try or that the things you do aren't accomplishments, but it means you have different abilities and different needs." Nobody explained to me that the overexcitabilities I never understood, or my unusual emotional reactions, or my constant need for so much intellectual stimulation, or my tendency to dabble, were part of being gifted. All I knew was that they were things that set me apart. They made me uncomfortable and for a long time, I tried to hide them. It's only in the last year or two I've become comfortable with all these things, and it's only in the last few months I've actually been able to say that "I am gifted" while looking someone in the eye.

So that is the, looking back on it now, very long answer to your question. Basically, adults need to accept gifted kids for who they are and talk to them about what makes them different and everything it means. And realize, as my mother never did, that if you're dealing with someone who is as intellectually mature as the average adult by age ten, they're never going to do anything "because I said so".

Thank you Zhian for your detailed response and for your honesty. I do think our society makes it tougher for gifted girls (in some ways at least). I was a middle child with two brothers, and the way it played out was quite bad. My parents were immigrants with rigid sex role expectations, and even though like you I was a great student, never touched alcohol, didn't date, etc. my home situation became so bad I had to leave at age fifteen (luckily got myself into UCLA by exam, and managed to work part time and support myself while attending college). Several family friends invited me to stay with them until I was on my feet (essentially providing foster care from the second half of tenth grade -- when I left high school -- until I could get myself into college full time as a regular student). Even then my mom in particular was angry I wanted to go "straight to UCLA" instead of attending the community college first as she had done ("you think you are better than us"). Ultimately when I was admitted to Yale, even my dad had to laugh "YOU had to go to YALE!" (at least he could poke a little fun behind my mom's back). But it was seriously messed up. One of the problems was that my talents were in "male subjects" (math/science) and even as they pushed my brothers in those subjects (even though they were not interested), they tried to hold me back, as if my excelling in those made my brothers look bad. I remember getting a letter (for example) when I was in middle school from a JHU math talent search (for girls) and my parents threw it out. When I took SATs early in 10th grade, my parents started getting mail from Cal TEch and MIT, and they threw those out too. It took my parents years to come to appreciate that having a daughter talented in math and science is a GOOD thing. I remember in middle school my brother wanted to take a home ec class in school (they called it "boys foods") and my dad just about went nuts (expressing rather rudely the idea that this kind of thing could make his son gay).

On a brighter note, my middle son (now 15) will attend UCLA this summer (between 10th and 11th grade), and it makes me so happy he can do so, and under much better circumstances than I experienced. I also started UCLA during the summer when I was 15, but I did so as an emancipated minor, after having dropped out of high school (since I was no longer living at home with parents). I did manage to get admitted as a regular student about six months later, and it all worked out, but it was not easy. I do think being a daughter of immigrant parents made it especially tough, being "gifted" too. My parents already stood apart from "mainstream American culture" and they did not mind in the least imposing crazy restrictions on me that they never would have applied to my brothers.

LOL zhian! I was actually thinking of a few people I've known in similar situations and they were women, and the child you were describing was a girl.

I think your right, it depends on the exact situation. And there are probably advantages and disadvantages each way.

I found what the dynamic you described with your mother very interesting. I always struggled with that! When I read about giftedness as an adult, it was quite overwhelming to realise that I wasn't just being obstinate etc, it was how my brain worked.

This i think is what kids who aren't identified can miss, because they are aware enough to know they are different, but without the label, they might not know they are different, but still OK.

That is what wore me down...I taught for 15 years and by the last year I was so disgruntled with the "system" that I had had enough and left teaching. Teaching wasn't fun anymore...I was told to focus all of my energy on my lower end children because all the others would be "just fine"

I agree!!! Kudos for you for taking time for this little dear!

hi zhian and HannahZ,

Thank you for sharing.... it must not be easy just to walk down that memory lane again. Reading your post made me feel both sad and lucky. Sad that you had to go through those terrible times. Lucky that hopefully with your insights, I can be a better parent for my kids.

Very grateful,
Mag

Mag,
I'm sure you are a great parent.

I also think the little girl in Zhian's class is extremely fortunate to have Zhian as her teacher.

I found Zhian's comments very interesting and insightful, and reading his account of his challenges with parents makes me reevaluate some of the problems I experienced at home, which I previously attributed to pure sexism. Gifted kids are challenging, there is no doubt about it. But I love the idea of a kid who will never accept "because I said so" as a legitimate reason for doing something. That kind of thing in my own kids makes me very proud, and I am sorry Zhian's mom had trouble with it.

It's funny, becoming so much more comfortable with myself as a gifted individual over the last couple of years has had effects I never would've dreamt of, one of which is the fact that my mom has, several times in the past six months, been moved to tears by a sudden realization of something she did wrong. Unfortunate I don't have any younger siblings. (Since it's hard to tell in print, I'll clarify: that was humorous appreciation of irony, not bitterness.)

GeoMamma, that's exactly the point - there's no way a gifted child will reach the age of eight without realizing they're gifted, but realizing that all the ways they're different are interconnected and they're all okay is another matter.

Mag, it's not as hard to talk about this stuff as you'd think. Despite everything, I had a happy childhood, and it brought me to the pretty damn good place I'm in right now, where, among other things, I can support a gifted young girl who's not getting what she needs at home (and may have some serious health problems to boot, we discovered this week; at the moment, I kind of wish I weren't agnostic so I could pray for her).

I do have one more piece of advice: the reason my dad did so well with me was always that he didn't quite know what he was doing. He grew up in an orphanage and had no experience of family life, so everything he did with me was a response to ME and OUR SITUATION. I recognized the value of this from about age nine and often commented on it to my mom when she was in one of her "this is the way a family works!" moods. I think going in with no preconceptions about how things should be or how you should act is probably the best thing a parent of a gifted child can do.

Oooh, very important and true! I personally think it's that best thing ANY parent can do - but that's probably another topic.

Zhian and HannahZ, tks so much for sharing. We're not Americans ourselves, so while I don't know what it is like to be American, I do know what the expectations are in an Asian context. I have people (my DS' classmate's mom, for example) telling me how I should bring up my kid - he asks too many questions, he doesn't know how to make friends, etc. Like they presume they can tell me because when I explain why I want DS to do certain things or if I don't sign up for a class because he doesn't want it, that comes across as being too soft with the kid.

Hugs to you guys and thanks for providing deep insight into what my child is possibly feeling. I'm so glad there are teachers like you, Zhian. Hope to meet someone like you soon.

blob,

I'm actually Canadian by birth, and have lived in too many countries (Germany at the moment) to label myself with a nationality. I spent some time teaching in China and I've taught Taiwanese and Japanese kids (in England) as well, so I know exactly what you mean when you say that, for what your culture expects, your son "asks too many questions". The fact that questioning, and especially questioning authority, was even more discouraged in Asia than in the West was one of the reasons I left Beijing. Good for you raising your son against that particular grain.

Hah...this might count: yesterday the lunch lady was being stupid and trying to force her to eat something she didn't like. She asked me if she really had to. I told her "You're in charge of what goes in your stomach, and don't you let anyone tell you differently!"