Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Aspergers?

i also agree with nautigal - my DD7 still has the diagnosis on paper and that forces the school to deal with him in a kinder, gentler way. It is what keeps us from fighting to get the label taken away.
irene

Yes!! I totally agree with you, renie!

Ksy, here's a test called Sally and Anne Test which is used to measure "Theory of Mind".
http://www.asperger-advice.com/sally-and-anne.html

Botchan..at what age should they pass this test? seems hard for a 3.5 year old?

(Not Botchan but) yes, it would be normal for a 3.5yo to fail that test - children normally get it at 4, according to the Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally%E2%80%93Anne_test
(I don't know any more than this says about the distribution of age at which children can first solve this, though.)

Interesting. Both my children got it wrong (!!). I think my daughter may have gotten it right if it was acted out with dolls but not sure about my son.

Yes, ColinsMum is right. According to the Wikipedia article on Theory of Mind, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind it says, "Most normally-developing children are unable to pass the Sally and Anne test task until around age 4." I've also heard from my son's ABA therapist that typically developing children should be able to pass this test around 4 or 5. The article also mentions that "In one study, 80% of children diagnosed with autism (age range 6.1-16.6 with IQ range 70~108) were unable to pass the test."

I have some very detailed books about TOM (though i have to dig them out to get titles) and its explained more as something that develops from very early on and becomes more "set" by about age 5.. An example of early TOM in young toddlers is the ability to point to something they want to show you (because its interesting to them or because they want it).. If you point you are showing someone elses "mind" what you want in order for them to also "see" it.. So they know that you don't also see it. Kids on the spectrum sometimes develop pointing late and often drag the caregiver to an item if they want it.Sometimes explained as "lack of shared interest" or something like that.. Hope i explained that right.

I have seen a few different versions of the Sally Anne test and some are not as good as others- like the telephone game- it gets changed slightly as its "passed along". Its setting up something in an artificial way, though its a good starting point. Also the stat about 80% of kids not passing from 6-16 might be misleading because the test should be passed by age 5. So we can't tell from that stat how many of the kids would have failed it at 5, but now have it.

irene

LOL!
Yeah, specially Sally didn't see Anne when she came back...very suspicious.

I agree. The study was done by Simon Baron-Cohen, and I also think the sample is too small.(20 autistic children in total. 16 out of 20 failed the test.) http://ruccs.rutgers.edu/~aleslie/Baron-Cohen%20Leslie%20&%20Frith%201985.pdf

I agree with the other posters. I see signs of giftedness in early reading, but that's it.

My DS11 was recently diagnosed with Aspberger's.

Looking back, the hints we didn't catch were:

Lack of reciprocity in conversation.
Lack of use of greetings when seeing other people.
Awkward physically
Sensory-sensitive