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    #91493 - 12/24/10 12:06 AM Re: Synopsis of Jan Davidson's keynote speech - TAGT [Re: Grinity]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3285
    Loc: California
    Originally Posted By: Grinity
    Originally Posted By: Peter
    Accelerating the kids also come with a price that the kids' physical development (may be emotional)is behind their intellect level and sometmes feel out of place in the class room (especially >2 grades level).


    I have to disagree with the above though - so much depends on the kid and the personality ...



    I can see both points. Our eldest has skipped two grades, and does well socially now. But it's clear that fitting in when he's in high school (if he goes to a traditional high school) would be a huge challenge. He may be able to debate the high school students on their own level already, but socially, his interests are a world apart from theirs (and this is completely normal).

    An 11-year-old 9th grader would be in an environment where half the kids are at least five years older. That's a big difference. And a student who's +3 accelerated will be two years away from the beginning of puberty in a place where pretty much everyone is well into it. Maybe I'm way out of line here, but I just don't think that a high IQ can compensate for that socially. They're completely different things.

    I understand the need for academic challenges, and I understand about not always fitting in with age mates in school, having BTDT. And no one in my house regrets the skips. Academically and socially, my son is doing well --- but he's in a very small school and is outgoing.

    But at the same time, I think it's important to think about how school and college will be addressed when considering radical acceleration. This is just my opinion, but I think it's possible to get so focused on the academics that the very real differences in maturity (especially in high school) get overlooked. I really, really, don't want to put my kids into a position where they feel so outside the norm, they lose perspective and feel like outsiders. They're outside the norm in some ways (learning speed), but not in others (games, toys, height, many age-based activities).

    I'm NOT advocating against grade skips. I'm only advocating FOR planning ahead thoughtfully by considering different aspects of life after multiple skips.

    Val




    Edited by Val (12/24/10 12:11 AM)

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    #99908 - 04/20/11 08:39 PM Re: Synopsis of Jan Davidson's keynote speech - TAGT [Re: Mark D.]
    La Texican Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/10/10
    Posts: 1777
    Loc: South Texas
    Mmh.

    Davidson Institute for Talent Development has a page on Facebook.
    If you find it & "like" it you get regular posts in your newsfeed with all your friends updates. This Just In...

    http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/2011/04/bipartisan_talent_act_would_bo.html

    There's a bill in congress right now that would adjust the NCLB law to include a requirement that schools capture proof of academic growth for students performing above their own grade level.

    Hi-5s and cigars for all the dedicated parents over the years who brought this up to the school district, you've finally reached capital hill. "We must be the change we want to see in the world." -Ghandi
    _________________________
    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar

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    #99910 - 04/20/11 09:05 PM Re: Synopsis of Jan Davidson's keynote speech - TAGT [Re: La Texican]
    aculady Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/31/10
    Posts: 1040
    This comes on the heels of the Javits Act being killed. Giving with one hand, taking away with the other.

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    #99911 - 04/20/11 09:12 PM Re: Synopsis of Jan Davidson's keynote speech - TAGT [Re: Mark D.]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Quote:
    An 11-year-old 9th grader would be in an environment where half the kids are at least five years older. That's a big difference. And a student who's +3 accelerated will be two years away from the beginning of puberty in a place where pretty much everyone is well into it. Maybe I'm way out of line here, but I just don't think that a high IQ can compensate for that socially. They're completely different things.



    YES.

    That is the situation that my DD finds herself in.
    Now, because of a virtual environment, that still works okay. Her interests, fortunately, run along "geek" lines, so she makes friends pretty easily with the boys in her classes. She simply keeps some of her OTHER interests (the 11-12 yo ones) to herself with her schoolmates, and saves those for playmates closer to her own age. All that is fine and healthy.


    There are issues with her maturity not matching the expectations of high school students' executive skills, and we still don't have enough academic challenge in the mix, I know...

    but truly, if it's this bad a fit now, with +3 grades and honors coursework that is hypothetically differentiated... I can't even fathom what a chronological placement for her would be like.

    Yes, also, to Val's point about considering what this does to college options (and considering the family dynamics at that stage, too). DD isn't going to go to an Ivy as an undergraduate who is fourteen years old. Not happening. Partly that is because of her age and our geographic location. We'd have to MOVE to wherever she went to college to make that feasible.

    <shrug> It wasn't a big deal to us, but it was something we thought about. Will it eventually matter to DD that she's Ivy caliber and didn't have the option? Maybe. But I doubt it, knowing her personality.

    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

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    #99913 - 04/20/11 09:15 PM Re: Synopsis of Jan Davidson's keynote speech - TAGT [Re: Mark D.]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Well, nevermind....



    LOL-- just now seeing that La Tex's post is the new one today and Val's is much older.


    I wonder if this means that the school's own mandatory "look how stupid you were at the START of the year as compared to NOW" tests are going to start actually meaning something? You know, as opposed to;
    "Yup. You knew everything then. Good, you still seem to know MOST of what you knew last September. First do no harm and all that... very good..." smirk


    Heehee.
    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

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    #99916 - 04/20/11 10:41 PM Re: Synopsis of Jan Davidson's keynote speech - TAGT [Re: HowlerKarma]
    aculady Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/31/10
    Posts: 1040
    Originally Posted By: HowlerKarma


    I wonder if this means that the school's own mandatory "look how stupid you were at the START of the year as compared to NOW" tests are going to start actually meaning something? You know, as opposed to;
    "Yup. You knew everything then. Good, you still seem to know MOST of what you knew last September. First do no harm and all that... very good..." smirk

    Heehee.


    Oh, I hope so. When we were looking at putting my 2E son, then 5, into public K, we requested that one of his IEP goals be that he would make at least 1 academic years' worth of progress in each academic area each year - both in areas where he was delayed and in areas where he was significantly ahead. They nearly choked!

    Just one more reason why we homeschool...



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    #100548 - 04/27/11 07:03 AM Re: Synopsis of Jan Davidson's keynote speech - TAGT [Re: Mark D.]
    Adie Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 04/26/11
    Posts: 3
    I totally agree with this. I think that unfortunately the school system worldwide has not developed with our children, irrespective of his/her ability. I saw a wonderful clip regarding "21st century education in New Brunswick, Canada", now this is definitely my idea as to how education should be.

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    #114684 - 10/25/11 11:24 AM Re: Synopsis of Jan Davidson's keynote speech - TAGT [Re: Mark D.]
    Sammy1 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/25/11
    Posts: 5
    I agree with all posted actually. I would like to see the classrooms as socially academic and we need to separate how we socialize. School needs to be about intellectual socialization and not age appropriate social patterns. That way it wouldn't matter if my son was eight and in Algebra as long as they talked about Algebra.
    If people are worried about socialization when it comes to age then there could be after school programs for that instead of after school programs for a child who isn't learning enough in school because he is beyond his grade level in academics. Getting tired of the upside down issues with public school. I'm finally online schooling as they were the only ones who tested him and put him into subjects at his level regardless of age. He was in a gifted program at a public school to boot but they still could not go beyond a certain academic level regarding age. It's a strange challenge, one I can't really wrap my mind around. It doesn't compute.

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    #131084 - 06/02/12 11:12 AM Re: Synopsis of Jan Davidson's keynote speech - TAGT [Re: Mark D.]
    BeckyZ Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 06/01/12
    Posts: 2
    If you study organizational behavior you find that people behave just like animals in terms of taking whatever action or lack thereof that is EASIEST. School district administrators are always going to favor teaching to the middle of the bell curve because that is what is easiest for the institution to deal with. They have no incentivization for high performance. Their incentive is to move the greatest number of kids through their system in the easiest way possible FOR THEM. My son is 2E- both very gifted and ADD. There is absolutely no incentive for the school district to take an interest in meeting his educational needs. It would be a lot of extra work and they will get nothing back from it. They would have to make exceptions to rules in a large and very rule based institution. My son is nothing but a headache for them. Horseybz@msn.com

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    #131563 - 06/08/12 08:04 AM Re: Synopsis of Jan Davidson's keynote speech - TAGT [Re: Mark D.]
    mathwonk Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 06/06/12
    Posts: 11
    As a teacher, I wonder how one implements this individual instruction when you have more than 8 pupils. As a college professor with 30+ students per class, I sat alone in office hours day after day because students were unwilling to ask for individual help until there was a test. I recall one young woman, really struggling even at the basics, who did come in. I spent three hours one day with her, staying until 7:30pm, missing dinner with my wife. The student at last saw the point of integral calculus and even began to make observations that the rest of the class had not yet done. Then she dropped the class. sighhh. In all my decades teaching I can only think of two students who came to office hours really faithfully. One is now a college professor and researcher in education, and the other got a phd in biology from MIT and started her own consulting business from home while also a mother and housewife. I suspect motivation is everything, but how to kindle it and keep it alive? My own children ultimately refused to let me add to their education because the other kids at school didn't have to do any extra work. When they found out how easy school was they learned to slide almost all the time. But in fairness, the school did offer many things I could not, superb English instruction, social skills, athletics.

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