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    #68555 02/10/10 12:48 PM
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    I kinda already know that they don't but do they never test? I mean, would a child that is gifted show gifted on one test yet not another? Wouldn't there at least be an inkling that the child was as smart as I thought?

    I ask these questions after looking at my sons COgat score which, the gifted teacher says, do not indicate any possibility of giftedness. She says these scores are low and there would at least be some indication. They are testing him again on the request of his teacher and myself. Local composite is only 64 and National is 54. I know he is smart so that isn't the issue. I am worried because last year, school sucked for him. He hated it and by the end of the year it was a struggle to just get him to attend.

    But now I am wondering if I am just not good at parenting lol. Damian drives me crazy with his incessant questions and embarrassing comments. He talks 24 hours a day, he sleeps maybe 4 hours day and he READS n his spare time! He knows so much about dinosaurs, including what age they lived in, the theories about how they died, what kind of food each one ate, and even how many bones have been found for many of them. He is so smart and has so much potential but after looking at his COgat scores from last year, I think he isn't gifted.

    The thing is, I have had him tested 5 times for other issues. All come out saying he is just very intelligent but NOT ADD or ADHD and even the psychologist cannot find anything beyond his need for knowledge, wrong with him.

    Is there any possibility that my feelings about my child are correct and the test is wrong? His teacher this year, as well as in Kindergarten believe that he is indeed gifted and his 1st grade teacher was pretty disconnected and didn't seem to care much either way. I don't care much either way as long as he is getting what he needs from the school, but what happens next year when his teacher just doesn't have the time or willingness to give him the extra challenge he needs?

    Am I over-reacting or pushing too hard? This child is so amazing! Why is he being judged by a number anyway? Why can the school system not just allow him the freedom to work ahed when he finishes all they give him? It seems unfair to hold him back because he isn't supposed to be learning something yet. In Kindergarten, Damian was using Hooked on Phonics at home. He begged me for it because he wanted to lean to read. 2 months in, the teacher asked me to please stop doing it with him because he was too far ahead of the rest of the class. Damian was devastated. All he wanted was to be able to read his dinosaur books. Now he reads them all with no problem along with dictionaries and encyclopedias and somehow still has questions when he is done. What am I supposed to do with that??

    What if I am right and this child really needs more from the school, but his test scores don't reflect it? Is that even possible?

    Sorry for the rant/questions/whining. I am SO frustrated. Why is it so hard to do the right thing for my child. Doesn't America want smart children???

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    Originally Posted by GeniusZooKeeper
    In Kindergarten, Damian was using Hooked on Phonics at home. He begged me for it because he wanted to lean to read. 2 months in, the teacher asked me to please stop doing it with him because he was too far ahead of the rest of the class.
    Ask her if they also "hobble" the fastest kids on the athletic field just to keep things "fair."

    Originally Posted by GeniusZooKeeper
    What if I am right and this child really needs more from the school, but his test scores don't reflect it? Is that even possible?
    I vote that it is definitely possible. Our son would not have qualified for many (majority?) of GT programs across the nation were he judged only on his SB-5 scores. Thankfully, he already had a WISC & WJ -- along with a handful of other tests -- that showed an entirely different child. His real-life experience and performance definitely reflect the higher results.

    Originally Posted by GeniusZooKeeper
    Doesn't America want smart children???
    I think most of America wants the smart children... but not enough people understand the proper care & feeding required for many of these little treasures.


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    Originally Posted by GeniusZooKeeper
    ...I have had him tested 5 times for other issues. All come out saying he is just very intelligent but NOT ADD or ADHD and even the psychologist cannot find anything beyond his need for knowledge, wrong with him.
    I know that you mentioned the CogAT being an average score. What other four or five tests has he taken & what types of scores did he get on those? You mention that they said that he was very intelligent. Are you meaning bright (somewhere well above avg like the 85th percentile) or very high (like the 98th+ percentile)?

    Like I said on your other thread, my younger dd is very erratic and certainly has scores on some tests (CogAT included) that would indicate that she is quite bright, but not gifted. It certainly is possible for one test to not hit on a specific child's strengths.

    If the child has taken five ability tests (CogAT, WISC, SB, OLSAT, Raven type of tests) and all of them are consistently around the 50th or 60th percentile though, I might wonder if something else other than giftedness is going on. If there is a lot of inconsistency from test to test and day to day, I would certainly not rule out giftedness. Some kids just don't test well for a variety of reasons.

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    Hi,
    Also consider how he does in test situations and who the tester is.

    For example, does he have a bit of perfectionism in him, where if he's not sure if he could get it right he won't try. Perhaps he needs a lot of encouragement?

    Or, were the first set of questions so easy (with no explanation from the tester) that he was offended by them. Some testers will explain to the child that, oh these are so easy, I know you know them, but could you do me a favor and just answer them, then I can give you the next set which would be more fun ... or something like that.

    Then, when the test starts to get hard, the tester would say something like ... wow, you're doing great. Now, this next set of questions ...you're not suppose to know how to do it. But do you want to just try and take a guess. Just for fun...

    etc etc to coax the answer from him

    Not sure if this is happening with your child, but just a thought...

    goodluck!

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    Cogat is never the 'best' test.
    It is possible for a child not to do well, and still be gifted.
    It is all possible for a child not to do well, and not be gifted.

    I think the only way you would get a better feel for this is through an individual IQ test. Did the past psychologists administer an IQ test?

    The big question isn't whether he is gifted or not, but if school is challenging him or not. What does he need that he is not getting from school, and how can you work to get that?
    Tammy

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    Originally Posted by jesse
    Hi,
    Also consider how he does in test situations and who the tester is.

    For example, does he have a bit of perfectionism in him, where if he's not sure if he could get it right he won't try.

    THIS is a very real problem for Damian. It wasn't severe in Kindergarten but it was apparent. It has gotten much much worse since he finished 1st grade and frankly I think it is because he was FORCED to sit in his seat with his head down when he was finished with his work EVEN if it meant that he sat for 20 minutes or more. He got so used to the work being easy and now if it isn't easy he breaks down saying he must be dumb or the teacher/work/rule or game is stupid.

    His mind wanders a lot and initially, last year I voiced my concerns before they did the testing that he would not perform as well in a group setting because he child next to him or a cough or a pencil snapping would distract him especially because this is not something he has a keen interest in and Damian often has a hard time focusing if he doesn't like the subject matter.

    His teacher in 2nd grade has taken to ignoring Damian when he seems to not be paying attention because he retains information even when you don't think he is listening. She hasn't hounded him about fiddling or fidgeting either because he cannot focus or refuses to if he cannot do these things. She also said that instead of refusing to answer questions in the middle of a lesson, she gives a vague answer and encourages him to finish his classwork so he can go look it up.

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    Originally Posted by Cricket2
    Originally Posted by GeniusZooKeeper
    ...I have had him tested 5 times for other issues. All come out saying he is just very intelligent but NOT ADD or ADHD and even the psychologist cannot find anything beyond his need for knowledge, wrong with him.
    I know that you mentioned the CogAT being an average score. What other four or five tests has he taken & what types of scores did he get on those? You mention that they said that he was very intelligent. Are you meaning bright (somewhere well above avg like the 85th percentile)

    If the child has taken five ability tests (CogAT, WISC, SB, OLSAT, Raven type of tests) and all of them are consistently around the 50th or 60th percentile though, I might wonder if something else other than giftedness is going on. If there is a lot of inconsistency from test to test and day to day, I would certainly not rule out giftedness. Some kids just don't test well for a variety of reasons.

    I am trying to get the KBIT results. The other tests were for ADHD and academic achievement. As far as academics, 2 months into Kindergarten he tested at K-10 on most things and above grade level on others. (PS I DO know how to spell but my laptop seems to be failing to put letters in when I press them)I know the K-Bit tested him at Above Average Range but I am unsure as to the actual number scores until I get the copy of the test. I never thought much about those tests and didn't keep copies because I thought being smart was a good thing. If I had known that this type of situation could arise, I would have kept thm. Honestly, when the psychologist said she would think him gifted if he were older, I never even thought about it. I went about doing what we did. I didn't know gifted was a good (or bad perceptually) thing. I figured, oh wonderful! My child is smart as a whip! It was later that I found out that his father was gifted growing up.

    Even now, I asked Damian yesterday how his test was going and he said it was hard to focus. That he was in a room with some pretty cool science toys in it.


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    Originally Posted by quaz
    Cogat is never the 'best' test.
    It is possible for a child not to do well, and still be gifted.
    It is all possible for a child not to do well, and not be gifted.

    I think the only way you would get a better feel for this is through an individual IQ test. Did the past psychologists administer an IQ test?

    The big question isn't whether he is gifted or not, but if school is challenging him or not. What does he need that he is not getting from school, and how can you work to get that?
    Tammy

    He needs a more flexible education that allows him to further his learning if he finishes way before the other children. He needs to be engaged and he desperately wants to learn a foreign language. He keeps asking his Aunt to teach him Thai but she isn't around enough to do it.

    I have no idea how to achieve this as obviously the school has different ideas.

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    Originally Posted by Dottie
    How old is he in relation to his grade peers? Is he one of the youngest? Or one of the oldest? Or right in the middle?

    He is right in the middle. He doesn't have a whole lot of friends. The kids tend to find him a bit of a know it al or very very bossy. In fact his two very good friends are also children who are different. They are both very big for their age. So big in fact that the one 7 year old plays on the 10 year olds basketball team because he is too big for the 7 year old one. Of course, my son is one of the smaller ones in his class.

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    Originally Posted by GeniusZooKeeper
    I am trying to get the KBIT results. The other tests were for ADHD and academic achievement...
    I know the K-Bit tested him at Above Average Range but I am unsure as to the actual number scores until I get the copy of the test.
    The KBIT is the Kaufman Brief Intelligence Test so it is an IQ test of sorts, although it does only take 20 minutes, so it wouldn't be as complete of a picture as something like the WISC-IV. With a mean of 100 and a SD of 15, you'd be looking for a score of around 130+ to indicate that he is gifted. Although, if he came out in the upper 120s, I'd assume that he is quite possibly gifted as well if other indicators are there.

    Like Dottie mentioned, getting a complete IQ test done would probably be your best route and certainly better than just readministering the CogAT.

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