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    #41128 03/12/09 01:23 PM
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    BellaGP Offline OP
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    We just go back from our 2nd grader school conf. While, we know he is bright (WISC-IV 135 / HIgh score in VSI 148 and low score of 97 on PSI), his teacher refuses to see that he is gifted. He is in a regular classroom and we are trying to move him to the magnet program next year. The final straw was today when she shared his winter NWEA scores: reading 211 and math 218. Fall he was in the 98th % and she said his reading was still at that but she was surprised with his math. In fact, she had never had a student with such a high score. So rather than go with that score, she decided to give him some random 3rd and 4th grade math tests. She showed us all the his wrong answers and said that proved he wasn't gifted (especially since she has not seen him perform at a gifted level in her classroom). We are really upset because she has a say if he gets into the magnet program (there are only 24 spots for 8 elementary schools). My question is how accurate is the NWEA?

    Thanks!

    BellaGP #41131 03/12/09 01:37 PM
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    Since they keep going until the student gets a certain percentage wrong I think they are pretty accurate. My DDs school has used them as support of the fact that she is gt.
    Giving your son random 3rd and 4th grade tests and then criticizing his scores is really mean and I think she should be reported to the administration for that. It is unprofessional as well, just because a child is gt doesn't mean they know things at first sight, or would perform well if they knew they were taking a test that the teacher felt they would do poorly on to begin with.

    BellaGP #41144 03/12/09 02:07 PM
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    Grrrr! mad How frustrating for you.

    Here's a whole section about NWEA accuracy and comparisons to other measures.

    http://www.nwea.org/assessments/researchbased.asp

    I did my own comparison with DD6's NWEA MAP scores and out of level Stanford Achievement Test. Her +1GL Fall MAP and +1GL Stanford scores gave identical percentiles for math and reading.

    You may want to look in terms of his growth too. It sounds like he had huge growth from Fall to Winter. Do you have his past NWEA MAP scores to show how he's moving up the above grade level percentiles too? You could make a table showing his GL percentiles, +1 GL percentiles, and +2GL percentiles over time.

    I looked up his above GL percentiles here on page 143:
    http://pickens.it.schoolfusion.us/m...ssionid=14d1e9266e4482d198ebc39c6e6bc9c3

    That Math RIT score give GL 99%, +1GL (3rd) is 96%, +2GL is 79%, and +3 GL is 54%.

    Another point you could make is that Johns Hopkins CTY uses 95% NWEA MAP scores as an eligibility guideline for their Talent Search. I don't think they would accept random 3rd and 4th grade math tests. wink

    http://cty.jhu.edu/ts/tests.html

    Of course you have to be careful how you present this if she's intent on proving he's not gifted. You could say, "Have you considered his above grade level percentiles? Here's what I saw when I looked into it more."

    Do you have the Student Report that shows the graph of your son's growth compared to the district and national norms? The picture of the "gap" may help too.

    Good luck! We had a similar issue earlier this year, except it went a bit further because the teacher had been given bad norms. The scores were used against DD6 being gifted when they thought she scored low. When we showed the norms were bad and she scored high, the story switched to "NWEA MAP is only used to guide instruction and not for identifying gifted." Now it seems to be worked out with the teacher at least.

    Last edited by inky; 03/12/09 02:16 PM. Reason: queen of the afterthought!
    inky #41147 03/12/09 02:21 PM
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    BellaGP Offline OP
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    Thanks all for the advise. His math fall score was 201 and then it went up to 218 (median is 186) and for reading it was 204/fall and 211/winter (median 186). While she did not share the specific %, we can only assume it was beyond the 98% that he had in math and reading in the fall. We will work on some of your ideas to present to his teacher and principle. We just would like the opportunity to be considered for the magnet program not a road block from his teacher.

    BellaGP #41155 03/12/09 02:41 PM
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    If you go in here and look at the data, you can see that was a huge jump in math. A child at the 2nd grade 98% with a Fall Math RIT of 202 jumps to 209 in the Winter (7 points). Your son jumped 17 points!

    http://pickens.it.schoolfusion.us/m...ssionid=14d1e9266e4482d198ebc39c6e6bc9c3

    inky #67846 02/01/10 07:59 PM
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    I know this is an old post but I would love to know your outcome- I have a VERY similar situation- My 7 year old 2nd grader went from 197 math in Fall to 218 in winter (one subtest was 221)and from 191 to 206 in Reading.
    I thought at the time the original tests seemed low but it was really his first time taking standardized tests- we are new to the school and he can be quite a trouble maker- we had a really bad experience with a Montessori school that basically wasted a year of his education so he walked into the public school and got a big shock. In Fall missed the GT program by 1% point(Map 95%- he was 94% in Math) and his other tests were not indicative of Gifted at the time- but said they would watch him and retest in the spring. Now that he is in the 99%+ for Math I am wondering if they really need to retest him.
    We found out he had severe sleep apnea and had surgery over Thanksgiving- he is sleeping now and obviously did a lot better on the tests in Winter- more in line what I expected. He is still a behavior problem- I tell them GIVE HIM HARDER work when ever he gives them trouble. My parent teacher conference is in 2 weeks so I am trying to decide my approach.
    Would love to hear a great success story from you!
    Brandy

    bgbarnes #67848 02/01/10 08:41 PM
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    Interesting that they are discrediting the MAP scores. Our school only gave credit to DS's MAP score and discounted his WISC and WIAT instead. Because psychologists can be biased :-) But his MAP scores were literally off the charts- 199 in math in fall 1st grade and a less impressive 189 in reading. These were what helped us get him moved to 2nd grade.

    They told us to expect a dip when he moved to 2nd in the scores. However, he just scored a 209 in reading... so evidently the "dip" isn't reality. We don't know what he got in math or language usage yet since they haven't finished testing. (BTW- our school has the 2nd grade take the MAP not P-MAP which I guess is not common.)

    CAMom #67869 02/02/10 04:53 AM
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    Our school also gives the MAP in 2nd grade and P-MAP in K/1st.

    This link may be useful for discussing the MAP score and level of challenge for the student.
    http://www.powayusd.com/projects/EdTechcentral/lladder/Default.asp

    inky #67878 02/02/10 07:40 AM
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    Inky that's a fantastic link! I swear you are the guru of NWEA! You always know what's up and have the best research!

    CAMom #67914 02/02/10 12:52 PM
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    Glad you found it useful and thanks for the positive feedback. I've been surprised that the most useful MAP info has been from other than the official NWEA website. Yay for Google!

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