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    #64757 - 12/26/09 06:56 PM Re: Young Scholars - whether to apply [Re: ColinsMum]
    Grinity Offline

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Originally Posted By: ColinsMum
    Let me stick my oar in (as parent of a mathy child and as a mathematician).... I'd be far more inclined to go geometry, including both classic Euclidean proof stuff and more modern and way-out stuff like 4D polytopes, geometric approach to complex numbers, and off into topology. Also, logic, proof, probability...

    These all sound very yummy ((applause!!))
    If the school doesn't come through, perhaps finding a tutor/mentor who can do the above is a good idea?

    This is really still unusual in DYS? That shocks me, actually. Do you really have the impression that it's because something conceptual blocks children's progress, or is it just because most don't happen to go that way [e.g. you can't demonstrate that you can do calculations involving percentages if you've never met the word 'percentage', but would any 6yo DYS have any trouble after they'd been told what it meant? Is it GT denial to say that I doubt it?]

    I do think that this is 'unusual' in DYS,and I think that the 'conceptual block' is in the minds of the adults. When my son was in 2nd grade, for example, I had NO IDEA that he was gifted, and neither did the teachers. Letting him try 6th grade math in 1st grade just wasn't on anyone's mind. Learning to tell time was a struggle in Kindy, and reading was just starting to solidify in First. Really.

    I do remember that in first grade we played around as a family that it was possible to count to 100 on one's fingers by assigning each finger the value of 10. The teacher was blown away by that. I was blown away that she was blown away.

    ((shrugs and more shrugs))
    Coaching available, at

    #64763 - 12/27/09 05:02 AM Re: Young Scholars - whether to apply [Re: Grinity]
    slhogan Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 09/24/09
    Posts: 40
    Your son sounds a lot like my 8 year old son. He is very good at math but just doesn't really enjoy reading except for Pokemon guides. He reads a bit above grade level (perhaps a 6th grade level when he's a young 3rd grader), but math is an entirely different story. In 1st grade he did a 1st grade math program and was really bored and hating math. In 2nd grade he easily went through the 5th grade math book (we homeschool, btw). At the beginning of 3rd we did pre-algebra and moved on to algebra by mid October. He's finding algebra pretty easy, so we're moving through it at a pretty quick rate. He's enjoying math a lot more now that he's out of arithmetic. We're planning to do geometry over the summer.

    Since our sons seem pretty similar, I found your son's scores very interesting. We're still saving our pennies for testing, but hope to do it soon.

    #64866 - 12/28/09 06:42 PM Re: Young Scholars - whether to apply [Re: slhogan]
    Anne4 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 12/15/09
    Posts: 22
    Thank you all so much. I am going to go ahead and put an application together for him. I don't think school will do much for him this year - they just seem overwhelmed by trying to figure him out - unless maybe I can come up with some very clear and simple suggestions for them to follow. That is what I really need help with. (Also, getting him to complete writing assignments more quickly but that is another issue I think.)

    The woman who did his recent testing commented to me that she found it particularly interesting that he was able to do the algebra and geometry problems on the WJ test. She said when he got to those it seemed clear that he had not been taught how to do them but was still able to figure out the answers somehow. He does seem very interested in learning algebra now. I made up a couple of algebra problems for him. He was so excited and didn't have any trouble solving problems with a couple of variables and seems to particularly like ones that have fractions, decimals and square roots involved (those have been long time favorites for him). I just tried giving him a couple though, so really don't know what else would be involved with the whole course.

    By the way, someone reminded me of a funny clock story with him in preschool. He was fine telling time on his own at that point, but I remember his preschool teacher telling me that she could not figure out why he spent so much time looking at a particular wall - he finally told her that he was bothered by the third hand on the clock on the wall. He told her it was hard to tell the exact time with that clock because by the time you start to think it the third hand moves and you have to recalculate. His personality hasn't changed one bit I guess.

    I am going to look at the murderous math books. I could really use a new series of books to catch his attention. I will also look at the website and think about geometry and the other topics mentioned. If we could find a really good match in terms of a tutor or mentor that would probably be the best thing for him. He is always asking to do more and would love individualized stuff. I would love it if he could do some of what he wants to do with math in school, but maybe that is not realistic at this point.

    Thanks again everyone!

    #64868 - 12/28/09 07:08 PM Re: Young Scholars - whether to apply [Re: Anne4]
    JBDad Offline

    Registered: 04/15/08
    Posts: 639
    Loc: Phila 'burbs
    Ray is a good source of MM and Horrible Histories:

    Some of the later books are really advanced IMO. Our DS6/second grader loves the humor and has probably read about half of them. When you get into the algebra books, they're definitely challenging (this coming from a person with a very strong math background).

    We provide them and horrible histories as an "unschooling" outlet.


    #64874 - 12/28/09 08:55 PM Re: Young Scholars - whether to apply [Re: JBDad]
    Mam Offline

    Registered: 08/01/09
    Posts: 347
    Good luck with the application. I am glad you are doing it, I don't see a good reason not to apply with qualifying scores.

    #64880 - 12/28/09 09:48 PM Re: Young Scholars - whether to apply [Re: Mam]
    Cricket2 Offline

    Registered: 05/11/09
    Posts: 2172
    Loc: Colorado
    Good luck with the application. I just wanted to mention another young kid friendly math source: Edward Zaccaro's math series. You might want to try his Real World Algebra or Challenge Math books.
    Study Strategies for Accelerated Learners

    #64945 - 12/29/09 09:23 PM Re: Young Scholars - whether to apply [Re: Cricket2]
    ch64 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/31/09
    Posts: 10
    Anne4, my DD10 has the exact same VCI and PRI scores. We are still working to find the right acceleration for her with her school (and in the meantime are working with ALEKS and Life of Fred afterschool). Definitely apply for DYS.

    For reading, just for fun stuff, has your son tried Captain Underpants, Black Lagoon, Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Guardians of Ga'hoole, or The Invention of Hugo Cabret?

    #64963 - 12/30/09 07:43 AM Re: Young Scholars - whether to apply [Re: ch64]
    Anne4 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 12/15/09
    Posts: 22
    Cricket2 - Thanks for reminding me of the Edward Zaccaro math books. He loved the Elementary version of Challenge Math. I looked up the algebra one and it looks like something he would love. There were a couple of other ones that also looked good. I ordered the algebra one and am still thinking about the others.

    ch64 - He has read Captain Underpants and liked those - also Diary of a Wimpy Kid. He didn't seem all that interested in Black Lagoon the last time we looked at them, but I might try that again because he loved the simple ones when he was younger. I will look at the other two also - we have not seen them and I would love to find a new series to capture his interest. I ordered some of the Murderous Math books and he seems really excited to try those.

    Starting to work on the application and trying to figure out who to ask to write the recommendation. Anyone have an opinion on whether it is better to have just one sent in or ask two people to do them? I was thinking of just one person who I think will write the strongest one (director of his afterschool math place - he has completed 5 grade levels of work there in about 8 months (going 2 hours a week with no study outside of the 2 hours) - of course he didn't have much to learn in the easier grade levels, but still pretty sure the director would say positive things - the director also tried to slow him down some by expanding each level beyond what he would normally give students there - adding extra challenge word problems and logic problems as he completed the standard work).

    Thanks again everyone!

    #64968 - 12/30/09 09:01 AM Re: Young Scholars - whether to apply [Re: Dottie]
    Catalana Offline

    Registered: 12/10/09
    Posts: 393

    Can you tell me about your afterschool math place - what type of things did they do - did he love it?

    Thanks, Cat

    #65019 - 12/30/09 07:19 PM Re: Young Scholars - whether to apply [Re: Catalana]
    Anne4 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 12/15/09
    Posts: 22
    Hi Cat -

    He goes to a place called Mathnasium. I think you can find it on the internet. They do a written assessment (usually start with current grade level and then move up) and then also ask him a few things verbally - e.g., if he misses a couple of problems of one type they will sit with him and have him explain and try to see if he is making careless errors or if it is a topic he doesn't know. Based upon this assessment they will determine which things he should learn and then create a binder of materials. First page of a lesson will have an explanation of how to do something and some examples - teacher will go over this with him - then next pages will have some practice - teacher monitors as he does them - then he will have a mastery check to see that he knows that topic after some practice. They kind of adjust as he goes along - if it is clear that he knows it after one page of work he will skip the rest of the problems and do the final check and move on. After completing a grade level, they redo the initial assessment to make sure he is solid in everything - more practice on anything that he needs to do. Then they move on to assessment for next grade level.

    We started towards the end of first grade when he told me he just couldn't take first grade anymore - no one teaches him any math and he needs to learn new stuff. He asked me to teach him more at home, but it was hard for me to figure out exactly what to teach him and I have three other sons that need my attention. This was our compromise and it has worked out well so far.

    The director has been really flexible. I was not keen on moving through too many grade levels too quickly so he added some extra stuff within grade levels. However, my son seems happy enough moving through more grade levels and I have finally figured out that he is never going to fit in nicely with what kids are doing in school anyway, so I don't really care anymore as long as he is happy learning what he wants to learn.

    In my opinion they teach things in the more traditional, logical way, at least as compared to the way that things are taught in our public school system. My older son is in our public GT center school, so does math that is supposed to be one grade up but I have found Mathnasium's stuff to be a little more complete than what our local school system teaches.

    My son does love going there. He learns something a little new each day and doesn't have to spend time doing a bunch of stuff he learned years ago. He gets lots of positive feedback - from teachers and also from some of the older girls (middle and high school kids I think) who think he is just so cute when he does his quirky math stuff - reciting pi and telling them odd factual stuff he knows.

    Anyway, for now it works although I keep wishing we could find a way for him to do math at school so we would not have the extra time and expense!

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