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    #63475 - 12/09/09 08:37 AM The score results
    jesse Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/10/09
    Posts: 283
    Loc: twilightzone
    Hi there,
    My child was tested and scored over 2SD on the WISC-IV and 160+ on the WIAT-II. How is it possible to score 160+ on the WIAT-II? Is the WIAT-II too easy? Child scored in the 99+% percentile on both those tests.

    PsycEdu tester said there are lots of reason why someone might score low, but only 1 reason why they score high. Hmm.

    What does this really mean? Yes, the PsycEdu tester said child is highly gifted. That is just amazing. I guess I'm still shocked by the results.

    Your experience? Thoughts, comments?

    [This should've been in the Identification and Testing forum. Oops.]

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    #63481 - 12/09/09 08:53 AM Re: The score results [Re: jesse]
    onthegomom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/28/09
    Posts: 1743
    You may want to think about apply to DYS. I'll leave the score interpretations to others. How is school going?

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    #63493 - 12/09/09 10:15 AM Re: The score results [Re: onthegomom]
    jesse Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/10/09
    Posts: 283
    Loc: twilightzone
    I was looking at the requirements for DYS and I totally can't believe it. It appears that DYS is for the profoundly gifted (whatever that really means...heh).

    Do you go to that school? Is it amazing?


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    #63495 - 12/09/09 10:30 AM Re: The score results [Re: Dottie]
    jesse Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/10/09
    Posts: 283
    Loc: twilightzone
    Thanks Dottie. I was discounting the GE (Grade Equivalent's) as being ... exaggerated! LOL So, you would take the GE's seriously? It is really hard to believe. Because, this is just wild. smile

    GE's
    Word Reading
    Reading Compreh
    Pseudoword Decoding

    Numerical Operations
    Math Reasoning

    Spelling
    Written Expression,
    Listening Comprehension,
    Oral Expression,

    How is it even possible. So I'm just thinking the test was too easy.

    So, is this "normal" for all of you parents? Is this what you saw with your kids??

    Thanks!

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    #63500 - 12/09/09 11:33 AM Re: The score results [Re: Dottie]
    jesse Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/10/09
    Posts: 283
    Loc: twilightzone
    Haha, thanks Dottie. Funny how it is so easy to think the scores are inflated and really wanting to take the scores down a notch or two or three!

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    #63503 - 12/09/09 12:12 PM Re: The score results [Re: jesse]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Originally Posted By: jesse

    Do you go to that school? Is it amazing?

    DA (Davidson Academy): I went on a tour, met teachers, staff and students - it did seem totally amazing. My understanding is that it's for kids who are doing middle school or level academics or are middle schoo or high school age, who live in Reno (or have families who can move there.) Davidson have several different branches, including an academic summer camp for high school aged kids, and each has it's own application process. I have heard that all the kids who go to the school or the summer program are invited to join 'YSP - young scholar's program' branch.

    Lots to sort out!
    Grinity

    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #63509 - 12/09/09 01:13 PM Re: The score results [Re: jesse]
    onthegomom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/28/09
    Posts: 1743
    I just want to make sure your are not misunderstanding. The Davidson Academy is a school in Nevada. But Davidson Young Scholars is a program you can apply to get your child envolved in. Check out the information on DYS in the DAtabase to the left,then select Program > Young Scholar.

    Best of luck. Keep us posted.


    Edited by onthegomom (12/09/09 01:17 PM)

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    #63514 - 12/09/09 01:32 PM Re: The score results [Re: Dottie]
    NJMom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/14/08
    Posts: 151
    Just to comment a bit more on the GEs and the WIAT-II in particular. Dottie is right about the reading comp test NOT including above level reading passages, so the GE for this subtest is not really meaningful (even in the limited way of comparing to an average child of that grade). However, if I recall correctly, Oral Expression and the writing subtest were similar in that respect. A six-year-old is not being asked to discuss democracy or sub-atomic particles...

    Nonetheless, the scores are definitely in the PG range and while it may be a little scary at first it doesn't have to be. He's still the same 6-year-old boy that he was before. And sometimes, those who are the most surprised about their kids LOG are those who are very gifted themselves. smile

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    #63531 - 12/09/09 05:13 PM Re: The score results [Re: gratified3]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Originally Posted By: gratified3
    I think this is one reason I don't find these tests too helpful.

    Not to mention my main gripe with the test: What good is an achievement test that doesn't help (much) with placement? Don't those two ideas seem logically intertwined?

    But - they are what they are, and for now, we will have to put up with them.

    Shrugs,
    Grinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #63543 - 12/09/09 08:10 PM Re: The score results [Re: Grinity]
    jesse Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/10/09
    Posts: 283
    Loc: twilightzone
    Thanks everyone.

    What is AT that gratified mentioned?

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    #63544 - 12/09/09 08:27 PM Re: The score results [Re: jesse]
    Mam Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/01/09
    Posts: 347
    Achievement testing. How old is your Dc?

    For example, if you take an early reader that is reading, let's say at a 1st grade level at 4, before starting school; he'd probably get that 99.9% reading score, since the vast majority of kids can't read before K. However, there might very well be (and in fact they are), many gifted kids, even PG kids who were not reading at 4. Once they start reading, they progress so quickly that they'd be further ahead than the first kid.

    For example, my dd "only" started reading at 4 years 2 months, but by the time she started K, she was reading at a 6th grade level (in terms of books she picked and read).

    The application deadline is the 14th, so it might be a bit tight for December. Probably the hardest part is to find the reference/recommendation letter.

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    #63562 - 12/10/09 12:42 AM Re: The score results [Re: Mam]
    Dandy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/12/08
    Posts: 574
    Our son's AT scores were waaaay up there, too. The GE's ranged from "only" +4 to +5 in math, and +10 to +14 in everything else.

    I found the results to be very helpful in the conversation with the school about subject acceleration and grade skipping.

    I said to them: "Now I realize that GE's of 9th - 12th don't mean that our son should be sent to high school next week... but do they not suggest that his current 4th grade class is probably not the best fit?"

    That definitely got the conversation going in the right direction.

    After receiving his IQ & AT results, I was stunned. "This is not my child!" I said to myself... and others. But I said this because I was comparing him to descriptions of the EG/PG kids described in various articles (esp. Miraca Gross) and was certain that unlike many of the profiled kids, mine wasn't up in his room working on particle physics in his spare time.

    It took a lot more reading and discussing with others before I came to terms with what it all meant. Or at least what it all suggested.

    While he doesn't "present" in such a way that he'll end up on the morning shows, he's clearly way out there and has been coasting to a much greater degree than I had suspected.

    What has your child experienced academically?
    Are there any struggles with school?

    _________________________
    Being offended is a natural consequence of leaving the house. - Fran Lebowitz

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    #63568 - 12/10/09 05:29 AM Re: The score results [Re: Dandy]
    kec Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/12/09
    Posts: 40
    Loc: Pennsylvania
    Dandy, I can relate to your particle physics comment. DH and I still struggle with denial, in part because our DS does not seem to match our idea of what an HG/PG child should be. Am I thinking they should have a lab in their basements like Dexter (with or without the accent)? Or is it because DS is our concept of normal, and we are used to those things he does that may cause others to look twice.


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    #63582 - 12/10/09 07:34 AM Re: The score results [Re: kec]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    I think that I've met about 100 PG kids (defined as 'beyond what modern tests can accurately measure) through the YSP for every one that I think of as a 'child prodigy' (defined as a child who can demonstrate a talent similar to an adult who is considered good in their field.)

    There is apparently a huge range within even the subcatagory of 'kids who get into Davidson's YSP' - Wow! One of Davidson's consultants confided to me that there are parents who join davidson YSP hoping to finally feel at home, but have the experience that the kids being talked about on the email lists seem 'not at all like' their own children to the point where they don't feel welcome to share their family's experience for fear of people thinking that they are fibbing.

    Kind of like how I felt when reading 'Horton Hears a Who' that maybe there is are a series of 'Russian Doll' worlds inside each world.

    Or as DH says: It's all relative; depends on who your realatives are!

    Grinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #63587 - 12/10/09 08:53 AM Re: The score results [Re: Dandy]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    Originally Posted By: Grinity
    One of Davidson's consultants confided to me that there are parents who join davidson YSP hoping to finally feel at home, but have the experience that the kids being talked about on the email lists seem 'not at all like' their own children to the point where they don't feel welcome to share their family's experience for fear of people thinking that they are fibbing.


    That's a shame! The top end of the curve--the very VERY top end--should be able to talk freely there of all places! frown I certainly wouldn't doubt what another parent was telling me.

    Originally Posted By: Dandy
    After receiving his IQ & AT results, I was stunned. "This is not my child!" I said to myself... and others. But I said this because I was comparing him to descriptions of the EG/PG kids described in various articles (esp. Miraca Gross) and was certain that unlike many of the profiled kids, mine wasn't up in his room working on particle physics in his spare time.


    I hear you.

    I experienced a bit of "imposter syndrome" for DS8 at our first DYS event. I realized later, however, that I was comparing DS to kids a year or two older than he was. In the "real world," that comparison is close enough to work. At events for HG+ kids, however, even a few months matters a lot! A year or two apart is MILES apart! I realize now that he is now where those kids who seemed so "out there" and were a bit older were. Just because they can play Pokemon together doesn't mean they're the same age!

    DS8 is not the smartest kid in the DYS program by a longshot, but he fits in there, I think. Certainly he had the sorts of fitting-in problems at school that required special attention beyond what the "normal" gifted kid would need.

    I think that much of what we're talking about is personality and interest more than ability. DS8 is a laid-back kid, and he likes Star Wars and Legos, so he can look like a "normal" kid (whatever that means!). But he learns things seemingly through osmosis, he learns things deeply and responds creatively, and he needs to be challenged or he is miserable. When something strikes his fancy, he pursues it vigorously.

    So no physics lab in the basement for us, but I wouldn't bet against its presence a few years from now! MILES away! wink
    _________________________
    Kriston

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    #63640 - 12/10/09 05:00 PM Re: The score results [Re: gratified3]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    Originally Posted By: gratified3
    But for PG kids, I've written them off as worse than useless because they can be misleading and create all sorts of anxiety about what to do with a kid at 6 or 7 testing past high school! sick


    Meh. If those crazy results get the school moving to actually serve the kid's/kids' needs, I'd call the tests extremely useful!

    I think parents of GT kids just have to be educated about what the numbers mean.
    _________________________
    Kriston

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    #63642 - 12/10/09 05:18 PM Re: The score results [Re: Kriston]
    Mam Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/01/09
    Posts: 347
    Originally Posted By: Kriston

    I experienced a bit of "imposter syndrome" for DS8 at our first DYS event. I realized later, however, that I was comparing DS to kids a year or two older than he was. In the "real world," that comparison is close enough to work. At events for HG+ kids, however, even a few months matters a lot! A year or two apart is MILES apart! I realize now that he is now where those kids who seemed so "out there" and were a bit older were. Just because they can play Pokemon together doesn't mean they're the same age!

    DS8 is not the smartest kid in the DYS program by a longshot, but he fits in there, I think. Certainly he had the sorts of fitting-in problems at school that required special attention beyond what the "normal" gifted kid would need.

    I think that much of what we're talking about is personality and interest more than ability.

    So no physics lab in the basement for us, but I wouldn't bet against its presence a few years from now! MILES away! wink


    Thanks for this post. I feel like that a bit, and if we decided to attend the summit, that would very much be the case. Partly because Dd is young (still 6) and also because while she did have qualifying scores, she is not one of those with all subtests scores 17 and above.

    I have to remind myself that not only their personalities and interests matter; but their interests also play a big role. When Dd started reading at 4, slowly and phonetically, I could not have anticipated that she'd be reading end of elementary level books before she started K.

    A year is certainly a huge difference!

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    #63648 - 12/10/09 05:43 PM Re: The score results [Re: gratified3]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Originally Posted By: gratified3
    Maybe they are really good for ND kids.


    I sure do wonder about that. Maybe gifted kids really are different after all? Is a test that works for 95% of the population a bad test because it doesn't work for 5% of the population? Maybe they should have an 'alternate reporting' for kids who score more than 3 grades above their current grade?

    Love and More Love,
    Grinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #63658 - 12/10/09 06:56 PM Re: The score results [Re: Kriston]
    onthegomom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/28/09
    Posts: 1743
    Originally Posted By: Kriston
    Meh. If those crazy results get the school moving to actually serve the kid's/kids' needs, I'd call the tests extremely useful!

    I think parents of GT kids just have to be educated about what the numbers mean.


    This is how I found out about our scores with my very 1st testing experience. At the end of 2nd Grade, I was told my DS's WJIII testing had adult scores in comrehension and mostly around 9th Grade overall. This was casually mentioned and that was it. This was freightening! I didn't really understand it and was worried. How would I provide for this child? I did joke with my husband, "I guess he can go to HS. We just saved 6 yrs.tuition"

    Well this did get our school moving. We have a long way to get it right. At least we have a start...


    Edited by onthegomom (12/10/09 07:31 PM)

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    #63735 - 12/11/09 09:56 AM Re: The score results [Re: gratified3]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Originally Posted By: gratified3
    One of our schools that refused to test with AT did curriculum based assessments and those were awesome because it found out where the kid needed to be in that school with that curriculum.


    Since each school is different, curriculum based assessments are the ideal way to go. These kinds of tests also help find out what the child needs to learn. I have often joked that the tests for math should be given with an adult looking over the child's shoulder. DS was 'way' over placed once in Math because he 'intuited' long division (it's actually called the forgiving method)- which was fine for a short test, but didn't serve him when he had to do many problems over and over in a limited time. Still I think that curriculum based assessments are wonderful. I wish that all schools had them for all grade levels at their fingertips for easy assessment of a child's readiness level.

    Smiles,
    Grinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #63736 - 12/11/09 09:59 AM Re: The score results [Re: gratified3]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    Originally Posted By: gratified3
    In terms of what the numbers mean, I've spent a long time educating myself on these issues and still couldn't answer that question.


    Well, I guess I was just looking at the bottom line: crazy scores mean that the child is too GT for a test not designed for GT kids, and that a standard public school curriculum with no adaptation probably isn't going to work for that child.

    I agree that it can't be taken a whole lot further than that just from the test alone. What adaptations are needed for a given child depends on many factors, not just test scores, as I think we both agree.

    I just took issue with the "completely useless" comment. Useless for some things, certainly, but potentially at least a little useful for other, broader aims.

    P.S. I think curriculum-based assessments would be more persuasive for advocacy, if they're available. But if one has the AT for other reasons, I think it can be one more bit of evidence in the child's favor.


    Edited by Kriston (12/11/09 10:01 AM)
    Edit Reason: added P.S. After Grinity snuck in on me.
    _________________________
    Kriston

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    #65315 - 01/05/10 10:37 AM Re: The score results [Re: gratified3]
    CakeBread Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 08/26/09
    Posts: 28
    I think AT results can be useful to a point.

    My dd like others, has her passions and sometimes, she is less interested in some subjects than others.

    We noticed that in one subject, if anything she seemed to be going down hill and had taken a placement test at her new school which put her down a grade from where she had previously been in online.

    I did nothing at first but let it be, as I wanted my dd to settle in. However, after initially saying she was liking their online program in this subject, she reverted to going back downhill. This I found out by looking at her results online one day.

    We then approached the school and reminded them of our child's AT results in that subject. As the AT results were a good six months old at that point. We suggested her real level of abilities with that subject, were something like this:

    AT GE + another grade because at least six months has passed and whilst we could see no visible evidence, then was internally probably some improvement + we then rounded up to the nearest grade.

    That produced an approximate leap in grades of 2.5 grades.

    The school agreed to this logic and put her into the new grade for that subject.

    Thus far a month later, that has worked out fine and if anything my dd is much more motivated and back to being happy in a subject, that she was steadily declining in.

    So, really I wouldnt write off the value of AT, especially if you see your child hit a brick wall on a subject.


    Edited by CakeBread (01/05/10 10:39 AM)

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