Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy "the best" of the worst comments

In seeking help for your gifted child, what are "the best" negative comments you've ever heard from school administrators, teachers, or even well-meaning family members and friends?

(You know, the ones that make you want to roll your eyes and leave you momentarily speechless while you ponder the absurdity of the logic....)

Here are some of mine, all from veteran teachers:

"If we advance her now, what will she do later?

"We don't let fifth graders use the sixth grade book, because, well, then what would they do in sixth grade?"

"We find the advanced kids usually level off by third or fourth grade as the others catch up."

"We can't let her do accelerated reading with the older kids because language arts is reading AND writing, and her handwriting doesn't look the same as the older kids."

"Don't worry about challenging her now. She'll have plenty of time to learn things. What does it matter if she learns math now or later? She'll get to learn it eventually."

"Oh, don't worry, we do so much in my classroom that no child could ever possibly be bored!"

Oh Dottie, LOL on the muscles comment! So ridiculous...

My DS10 asked his teacher early on in the school year if he could do all the problems in the math set rather than just odds or evens. She replied,
� That wouldn�t be fair to the other kids�.

gosh these already all so sound familiar...here are some of mine


"Well he's verbally precocious, but I wouldn't say he's gifted."

"I don't like to use the term gifted. Let's just say he's definitely bright."

"We don't do concurrent education. It would put young children in older classrooms."

"Now that you have found out he's gifted, don't change how you do things. We don't want to see you become one of those pushy parents whose kids burn out fast."

along with the "vulture" contribution I here by contribute the term "collective ignorance".

from our school psychologist at our initial Gifted IEP meeting:

A full scale IQ of 154 on a WISC-III is pretty average for our district.
--------

from our then Gifted Ed Supervisor:

The state's gifted ed regulations are a bunch of gobbedly-goop that nobody really understands....

-and-

It sounds like you expect your child's Gifted IEP to be individualized.

--------------------------------
From our then Director of Pupil Services at the Mediation hearing held to get the additional testing needed to create an appropriate plan:

"We'll come up with three names of school psychologists and you come up with the names of three school psychologists and we'll put the names in a hat and your son can pull the name out of the hat and we'll use that school psychologist to do the additional testing."

--------------------------------------

That experience ended up taking me down a path of understanding the state regs about the education of gifted in public education in PA.

Had they simply offered a half-baked plan that I could kinda/sorta go along with, I'd have time for two or three hobbies.

Regarding my son already reading, 8 months before kindergarten would start:
"We start learning to read in January of the school year. I guess we could have him start earlier in the year."

Regarding skipping to first grade:
"You say your son is currently reading at about a first grade level. Now,if he was reading at the third or fourth grade level right now we would consider a skip to first. But not with the level he is at right now." (This was 6 months before he would have started kindergarten.)

From the superintendent when discussing a grade skip: "What size clothes does he wear?"

At least we overcame those and got the grade skip. But now:

From the current first grade teacher: "We'll be moving him ahead in the extra readers, but he needs to stay with the hard cover book in sequence." Me: "Why is that? He can manage the 4th or 5th level right now." Teacher: "Because it is the first grade curriculum." Duh.

When I asked about giving DS some challenge spelling words:
"He needs to be getting 100 on his spelling tests." Me: "But he has. He spells them all correctly. He knows them all on Monday." Teacher: "But he needs to remember the rules. No capitals unless it is a proper noun. And I don't allow reversals."

'If I had a son like that, I would force him to be normal. He'd thank me later.' No comment....

'Do you have a problem with it when he acts his age?' No, I just have a problem with it when he gets depressed and gives up all his favorite activities....

'He needs to learn he doesn't know everything.' He knows that - which is exactly why he would prefer to be LEARNING something this year instead of underlining the subject in a sentence.

'At least he doesn't have special needs....' I know.... 'special needs' has a special meaning for educators - but if my kid doesn't have special needs, I don't know who does....

'He can't move on to 5th grade math unless he gets 100 on the 4th grade final.' Why not? Any normal kid who gets a 98 on the fourth grade final would move on to 5th grade.....

I think I have shared this one before....

"Mom, Snoopy is off the charts -they can't really measure his IQ.

Well, your dad was off the charts too sweetheart.

No, he was really smart, but he was definitely on the charts.

Well, you were off the charts too.

No, I was most definitely on the charts - at the far end, but definitely on the charts.

Well your grandfather was off the charts until he starting seeing little green men and was diagnosed with schizophrenia....."

I guess with all I hear and read.... that one still takes the cake.

Mary

I'm thinking of that comedian from Blue collar comedy Bill Engvall who is known for saying "Here's your sign..."

A women in my DS3 play group after seeing my son read..."Maybe if you take away his books he would be more normal." From my sister "You don't want to make a big deal about his intelligence, you don't want to make him feel special". (Remember this is the boy's Aunt!!) From the assistant principal of the elementary school "Prepare him to do his extra work at home and use school as a place to socialize". Ummm isn't that what the park is for???

Okay I must add one more...

My DH just yelled up to my son "Stop reading bedtime stories to the dog and go to bed!!" LOL

'If I had a son like that, I would force him to be normal. He'd thank me later.'

Mary, I am aghast at this one. Oh, the ignorance...

Who said the comment about your grandfather? That is priceless!

It sounds like you expect your child's Gifted IEP to be individualized.


This one calls for a big "Duh!" What did they think the "I" in IEP stood for?

I am commenting late in the game. I am a bit confused. 150 on a wisc is near the ceiling. my friend is a psychologist in a ny state district and has been there fro over 10 yrs. She stated that that score is rare. Either the district doesn't know how to test or they are simply not telling the complete truth?

Karen,
i have bad news. Soime people lie to each other. Some people go so far as to lie to themselves. Particularly when they feel as though their backs are against the wall. Particularly when they feel like they don't really understand 'what's going on.'

In 2nd grade, the school refered us to a private psychologist to evaluate DS10, because "there is something medically wrong with your son." ((Our Dime))

The local psychologist met him and said, there isn't anything wrong with him, he's just a little immature. If you want to be totally sure, we can run some tests. The WJ and WISC III came back with YSP type scores. The psychologist's assesment?

Kid is bright and maybe boredom is having an effect on his behavior. You should read up on NVLD because there is a big gap between his Verbal and Performance.

Personally, as a Mom, I can not see how anyone can look at those kind of scores in a child that is clearly unhappy, and acting out, and not reccoment a change of educational placement!

So my nomination for most outrageous thing heard is - he MAY be bored in school.

Particularly as it was part of a dismissive side comment, rather than, he may be bored - we should find out using these methods.....

Why do I even remember these things? They only frustrate me!
Trinity

This is a great thread! I've thought of a couple more:

From the principal, after the grade skip to first: "It's apparent he didn't go to kindergarten because he answers questions without raising his hand and sometimes runs and talks in the hallway. But the teachers said they can work on those behaviors." Yes, please do. I would like to see his spirit squashed!

From my sister-in-law: "Well, you can have him do sports so he'll be with kids his age, so he doesn't miss out on friends."

And from the teacher after he cried in school due to making a mistake on his paper: "Is he particularly sensitive?" Apparently she didn't read the report from the private testing we went out of state for!

I am simultaneously relieved and frustrated that everyone else hears the same type of stuff!

I love this thread!! It is hilarious and so very sad all at the same time. It is amazing how we hear so many of the same things. I checked off about half a dozen comments that had been spoken to me. I guess it underscores that a big part of our advocacy job is in educating the educators.

Dottie, I have discovered that educators really don't understand the significance of an IQ score. Everytime I present my daughter's IQ score to one of her teachers I get a blank stare. Teachers understand achievement tests and percentiles better.

okay, i now have to ask- my son who scored over 15o on the wisc. we are having problmes at school- essentially he is running the classroom right now because of his very bad behavior. He is very bored and has adequately articulated this. The principal has thrown around the idea of aspergers. JUst one eg. This for a kid who one day as he was walking down the street past a homeless man took out the $20 his grama had just given to him because the man apparently needed it more than him.-we explained to him that this was not the best way to deal with the homeless problem. Actually would not have a problem with a dx if it was accurate. But dx appear to be most convient for schools so they don't have to deal with the real problems. Anyways I have heard ridiculous things from some teachers-Fortunately my son had this great 4 yr old preschool teacher who pegged him 100% so I know that I am not delusional.

Opps forgot the question is- is this common mis dx- any experience anyone????

When my DS10 was 6, his teacher characterized his behavior as annoying. She liked him, but like me, found him exhausting. She suggested ADHD. Unlike some parents who rightfully get upset when others play doctor, we were not upset with her because she had already earned our respect as a teacher.

We took him to a developmental pediatrician where a team spent several hours over a couple of visits to get very detailed history. The MD reviewed the teacher�s concerns and history before she medically examined and interviewed him.

She concluded that he was a social, well-mannered, inquisitive, intellectually gifted boy who was under challenged in school. I chose to share the report with the school. I believe it may be best to consider and then rule out any dx that others may perceive. This should put an end to the speculation.

the comment about 150 reminds me of Mite's first grade teacher telling me that at least a third of the parents in her classes thought their kids were brighter than average.

CAPITAL DUH!!!!

HA!! I love all these, but I have the topper.

My son was reading chapterbooks and doing math before kindergarten. Naturally, I tried to get him in at 4. Public school, nothing hoity-toity.

He was denied early admission because he could not hop on one foot.

The next year, I went to get him enrolled in K and when the teacher greeted him, she handed him a informational paper "for your mommy to read." He looked up and said, "nevermind mom--I know your eyes are bothering you after the car ride in the sun yesterday. I'll read it to you." He read the entire flippin' thing right then and there (including all of the big words, pronouncing them properly) and the K teacher ran out of the room to get advice from some of her fellow teachers. lol!

Of course, I sat back with a big "toldyaso" grin.

willagayle:

Mite's first grade teacher telling me that at least a third of the parents in her classes thought their kids were brighter than average.

Oh Dear - how did you keep a straight face?
Just be glad that 1st grade teachers aren't called on to teach statistics.

Could I have pulled off a serious face, gotten a piece of paper and drawn a bell curve - complimented her on her intutive grasp of standard deviations and acute observational skills? And kept on educating, promoting my point of view?
Maybe on a good day, if I had said my prayers properly - maybe not.
Generally, when dealing with people IRL, I try to be delighted with any "difference of opinion" I can get out in the open, because they can be turned into such teachable moments.
But remember - even with all this - I could not get that first grade skip from the public school.
FWIW,

Trinity

Willagayle and Trinity,

I agree with a lot of what you post, but I have to comment on the teacher who said that 1/3 of the parents think their child is brigher than average.

I am responding as both a parent of a pg child AND a former teacher, I can tell you that many parents do THINK their children are brighter than average. The problem with that teacher's comment would only be if she believed that 1/3 of the children actually are brighter than average. Just telling you what the parents THINK isn't really a dumb comment.

I think that could be the reason it's so hard for parents whose children are actually brighter than average to get anywhere with some teachers. Of course, with test results or at the very least, a little observation of the child, a good teacher would be able to figure out which children actually are brighter than average.

Hope I didn't offend--I am a big time lurker, and I really enjoy reading all your posts.

Thanks!

Well, my feeling from the interaction with the 1st grade teacher was that a) she was exagerating and b) she didn't get that 50% are above average. She wasn't thinking about those 68% about the mean. She was just being snotty with me. She was wrong about Mite. I'll always wonder who else slipped through her biases.

So, I guess I'd stick with my DUH. I can understand the other perspective, but I really don't feel she was being that deep in what she said.

thanks for the alternate view, though...

Hi again Willa Gayle,

So now I will give myself the DUH comment.

That's what I get for reading through the posts too quickly. I was taking it as 1/3 of the children are so bright that they need extra special services, not just being higher than average.

I was reacting as a former teacher who heard a lot of parents tell me that their child was not challenged, when they were definitely working at an appropriate level. I also accelerated a 4th grader to algebra and helped a 5th grader skip to the next grade with further subject acceleration, so I knew how to spot children who did need more.

So, I apologize for my first post being of the DUH variety!

I'll read more closely before I respond next time!

When my daughter was in preschool, I heard over and over again, "Everyone thinks their child is gifted." That is why I finally had my daughter tested when she was four. I was tired of being dismissed as "just another proud momma." The diagnostician that tested my daughter told me of another young girl whose mother insisted she was gifted. When tested, the girl scored an even 100 for her total IQ.

I also have a good friend who is a kindergarten teacher that warned me not to tell my daughter's teacher that she was gifted because that tends to put teachers on the defensive. Apparently, there are enough parents out there that falsely promote their children as being gifted that educators are immediately wary when a parent suggests that their child is gifted.

Hi Adpugliese (and any other lurkers, particularly those who been teachers inside the school system)
Welcome ((big smile))

Thank you for accelerating the 4th grader to algebra! Speaking as a mom whos kid just got accelerated from first month of 5th grrade to prealgebra - that is a huge jump! My son is blinking and stumbling like a newborn kitten - very heartwarming to see!

Thanks for helping the 5th grader GS with additional SSA! (Was it a girl with good handwriting and good teacher reading ability? Was it an acting out boy?)

I would love to hear pages and pages from a "former teacher" perspective. Our last years teacher said that she worked SO hard to get one of her boys a single grade SSA in Math, and the Principal was convinsed, but the district put a stop to it at the last minute. Still, a different teacher in that grade allows parents to purchase EPGY MATH and use it in class, and my teacher's picture of inclass Math enrichment was commercial software that quized the times tables - which is good but isn't EPGY and didn't meet my child's needs.

What do you make of the the discrepancy between so many parents who say their child isn't challenged and your observations of their work level? Did you have any tricks to demonstrate to the parents that the child is at correct challenge level? (Sort of a teachers analog to the parents bringing in a video tape?)

One of the thinks I'm most curious about, is who other people - parents, teachers and administration think about the range of individuals in the catagory "Gifted."
If you (and any other lurking teachers or Admin) don't mind sharing what your mental images of this are - I'd really appreciate it! Since numbers don't mean much to the decision making adults, how do Teachers approach this question - yes they are gifted, but what signals does a teacher look for that her student's needs are being met? How far from average is this child?


Thanks in Advance,
Trinity

Hi Trinity,

I will try to answer your questions as best I can. First of all, I taught at a small private school, so I wasn't held to district policies in making decisions.

The student who I put in algebra as a 4th grader later was accelerated a full year. What happened with his math was this: we had decided to test all 5-8 graders in math and make groups based on ability rather than grade level--what a concept! The one little student was obviously above 4th grade level, so I tested him at the same time. When they formed the math groups they put him in pre-algebra. I happened to be the teacher for pre-alg and alg, and it was clear that he was breezing through the material. So, at parents' night, I just told his parents that I was going to put him in algebra. Naturally they didn't argue against this! So, in that case, I kind of did the "easier to say sorry later than ask for permission and get rejected." The director of the school did say something about, "what is he going to do next year?" since the school was K-8, but I answered with, it's either next year or the year after--it's something that will have to be dealt with."

The other child was a boy who sat in class and looked out the window most of the day, yet still got decent grades. His mother was concerned, saying he used to be a good student, etc., so I told her that he was probably bored. We moved him up a grade and further accelerated him in math, and he did much better after that.

As far as why parents think their children are gifted when they may be high average or something else, I can only guess. What I think is that some parents think that getting all A's means their child is not being challenged. I think it means (in some cases) that they are working hard at their level. I think that a student putting in average effort, but still learning should get grades of C or B-, students putting in great effort can get A's. Then there are students who put in minimum effort and get A's. These students are probably gifted. And, as we all know there are those who misbehave, stare out the window, don't get A's, but are still gifted. These are the ones that are most likely hg or pg. Unfortunately all teachers don't realize this.

If a child truly needs acceleration, I believe they should still be capable of getting A's or B's in the level they move up to. In the cases of parents who think their kids are not being challenged, I showed them examples of pretests in which their child did not do well (as they shouldn't have done if they hadn't learned the material). If the child aced a pretest, then was made to sit through the same material, there would be a problem. However, if a child has trouble on a pretest, learns the material through the lessons, then studies hard and gets an A on the test, I believe they are a good student, not necessarily a gifted one.

So, that's my experience. I hope I answered your questions. Sorry I don't have insight into administrator's views (especially in public school).

Wow Cransaer!
I loved hearing those stories. I'm so pleased to hear about the cross grade math! You really stood up for that little guy. On behalf of Parents of Gifted everywhere - Thank you!

I was wrong in thinking that the kid who got skipped must be a female with good handwriting, but I do think it's telling that he boy didn't act out, rather he was "acting in." Still I love the way you didn't ask for any expensive testing, just gave it a try.

As for Pre-testing - Wow - Wow! The only time that my DS10 got a pretest at school, the teacher made much of how amazing it was that he got the concept without being taught it, and then proceded to subject him to the complete "learning experience." I'm always asking for Pre-testing whenever I get school meetings regarding accomidations, and am always met with blank stares. I was told that a particular Math Program didn't have tests, so no pre-test could be done. I called the company, and they said that their learning objective could certainly be used as a pre-test. That didn't get me anywhere.

I agree heartliy that pre-testing to 85% is a lovely way to protect a child's will to be in a school environment. If you are pretesting, then you are totally off the hook. I'm believing you when you say that the child is definitly challenged. When my son was being turned down for subject acceleration or grade skips it was never about what he knows and what he is developmentally ready to learn. It was all about:
his "immature" behavior
his tendency to be "off topic"
his handwriting
his difficulty talking about his thought process in Math.

Example: How do you know that 2 plus 1 equals three?
DS: I thought about 2 plus 1 and the number 3 showed up in my head.

(for those of you who are now mystified - the "correct" answer was -
I had two cookies and I got another cookie, and I counted them up and got three.
OR
I looked it up on an addition table
OR
I started on the number line at 2, and when one jump to the right. I looked at the number at that place - It was three.)

I actually think that this is wonderful and important, and that my son learned a lot of good skill trying to do this activity. If they had been able to do this type of learning at a level where he could have also learned some Math, I would have been very pleased. Instead, it became a reason to hold him with age mates - not ok.

This is what makes me so curious about what teachers look for to know that a child needs an acclerated course.

I do agree that parents are quite confused at looking at "A"s on report cards. What do they mean? Is everyone getting them? I know a classroom where all the children got 100% or higher on a quiz, recently. One of the children didn't study. What kind of message is that child getting from their 103%? Can a PG child in a regular classroom get all "A"s and be underachieving? It seems likely that this will be true much of the time.

Thanks for being so game and answering my questions.
any other lurking teachers or Admins who dare follow your lead?

Trinity

Just a thought about pre-tests of grade level material; My son was pre-tested by his teacher in fourth grade on subjects such as �parts of a plant� and �body systems�. Sometimes he would pass, sometimes not. On almost all occasions some other student/s would do better. His teacher concluded that he must not be �gifted� in science.

He had never been interested in and studied these systems so he wasn�t an expert. The teacher�s assessment didn�t take into consideration his intense interest and knowledge of physics (which I am certain is beyond her own).

Cransaer, thank you for that incredibly informative post. I'm sorry to note that you no longer teach. I can tell you were truly a gift to every child that passed through your door. I pray my son gets a teacher half as insightful as you are.

Trinity-it never occured to me to ask my son why he knows the answers to math problems. I'm dyslexic and was never diagnosed so I just know the answer. It doesn't follow a linear pattern. I had never thought it should.

I'm still trying to see if my son can hop.... LOL

I can't believe how hard all of you struggle to have your child educated. I think it's sad

I'm interested, Cran, in how you would deal with a 2e kiddo whose attentional issues effect performance (i.e. careless errors or misunderstanding directions on homework sheets)?

Oh yeah!
Cran - I want to hear about that too -

I always heard from teachers- he's not checking his Math sheets, and I privatly thought - It's amazing that he's doing those math sheets! But I said outloud - he may never have the attention to check his Math, but at least if it's at a proper level he'll have incentive to do so. they didn't buy it.

Trinity

I believe I left one out of my prior list....

If your son really is gifted, go ahead and get him started on medication before he starts kindergarten. In our experience, all gifted kids are ADHD.....

The hop on one foot story reminded me of what happened when we tried to get DS into preschool. He was turned down because he would be too bored in preschool and he isn't ready for a fourth grade classroom yet.

Mary

When we met with the public school superintendant several years ago to try to early entrance our DS10 who just missed the cut-off;

"If you early entrance him he won't be able to drive when his friends start and he will be at a disadvantage with sports."

-I thought we were discussing his education.

I think we all (meaning educators and parents) need to accept that highly gifted kids rarely have true social peers. Each highly gifted kid is so different in interests, asynchronies and OEs that to find true peers would be very rare.

So what does it matter if they are with peers their age who tease them because they are different or with intellectual peers who tease them for whatever other reason??

Cran-my question about 2e and grade acceleration still remains. It got lost in the thread traffic, but I'm still curious about how you would handle that and how you would advise us to handle it.

Can I add one - even though my son is just 12 months!

Talked with the Superintendents Office today about early admittance to kindergarden (not now, when he is 4 since he will miss the cut off by 5 weeks), answer "No, state law says they have to be 5 - it doesn't matter how much they know"

Hi Willa Gayle,

Sorry I haven't responded to your 2e question--I've been running around the past couple of days.

First, I have to say that I am by no means an expert or Super Teacher or anything like that. I can only respond from personal experience and this may (probably) not reflect what other teachers do.

Also, as you know, kids like ours are rare, and that's why most teachers don't know what to do with them. They don't have to face situations like this often.

All that out of the way, I did have a similar student to Mite, though not as advanced. He was a middle school student, quite smart, but with no organizational skills at all. He also had attention difficulties. He would rotate between not doing his homework, doing it but forgetting it at home, and doing it but forgetting it was sitting in his backpack. He would also quit in the middle of a project, complete only half his class assignments, etc. I had the advantage of a small class size and a great deal of contact with my students' parents.

We worked on systems for homework--I would put everything in an envelope so his parents could at least find it. I would have all the kids check their backpacks at homework collection time (so as not to single him out). I would explain the directions for the homework to the class, then call on students to explain it back to me, most of the time calling on this student in addition to several others (again not to single anyone out).

He did get better at organizing, but the problem still remained that he didn't see things through to completion. I think that there are certain things that students need to learn and if I felt like this student hadn't mastered it and would need it in the future, I would insist on it being completed, though maybe through a series of steps. Such an example could be a written essay because being able to write well is something he would need in high school and beyond. Breaking it into steps may be assigning just coming up with a topic one night, then starting to outline ideas, etc. until he could eventually complete it. I was not a stickler on timelines. On the other hand, if he was not completing a math assignment, of say 10 algebra problems, but I could see he understood it from his answers to the 4 he completed, I would grade him on what he did, not what he was assigned.

Some parents or students may not find this fair, but accommodations need to be made for certain students, and the accommodations were never broadcasted to the other parents, and I didn't have a problem with it (no complaints from other parents or students).

So, as I said before, this is only my personal experience. I did not have any specific special education training, but this is what I came up with to deal with one specific situation. Hope it helps.

Hopefully you will find some good teachers someday. There are some out there....

Oh I wish someone other than me was putting that effort into Mite's organization and attention!

I'm curious, Cran, would you recommend grade acceleration for a 2E if the LDs were attentional and organizational.

Willa Gayle,

I know the question wasn�t addressed to me, but I wanted to share our experience with my daughter. When she was in 1st-2nd at the public school, I suspected ADHD or CAPD. The teachers and school psych thought I was crazy!!!! Then I told them that I also wanted her grade advanced and they felt sorry for my daughter having to live with a paranoid mother!

Fast forward many years and a few different experts including private ed psyche, a developmental ped, and the ed psyche dept of a large university have all confirmed that she definitely has some 2e issues in the realm of my first instincts which at least one expert considers significant. We haven�t gone to the final referrals because she is still an A student.

Anyways, the negative side effects of the 2E stuff were minimized immediately when we switched schools and she was grade advanced at 8 years old. Leaving a school without wall didn�t hurt either, I�m sure.

This brings me to a question about Rite (15). I had the schools tested given that when he was lttle he had a lot of the same difficulties (though not as severe) Mite had and that both Mite and I had recently found out we had dyspraxia and ADHD...etc.

We have found out that he does have very similar WISC discrepancies and has dyspraxia and ADHD, too.

So now what? He's a fantastic student now, but he's in age grouped grade level with advancement in math and in honors cluster. Frankly, his straight As don't impress me because he's not working hard at it. I'm glad he has As, but I wish he were being challenged. ALL of his teachers recognize his giftedness, too. When I spoke to them at conferences they couldn't say enough positive about him. I wonder if they would say that in front of their peers or bosses?

Anyhow, do we push for special ed? The one place it does seem to effect him is in standardized tests where he lands in 99th percentile on verbals and within mean for analytical. Clearly it is giong to effect his performance on the ACT or SAT if there aren't accomodations. He says he hates timed tests. He's actually skipped math levels in school and his math teachers marvel at him, but it just doesn't show on the tests.

What to do?

My son (5 in K with a 99.8% across the board) and I visited a local toy store to pick up some cool items. Of course, he was not interested in their toys but in their educational section. The nice sales clerk saw that he was choosing items intended for 8-10 year-olds. She told us 3 times that he would be happier "playing with the toys" in the younger kids section. He replied, " No. I am interested in these circuit boards and want to make a voice recorder". I pointed out that he was quite capable of this goal. Well she huffed off but when we checked out she wrote on our receipt that "none of the items are to be returned because I specifically told the mother that these items are well above her son's age level!" Needless to say, they lost a customer. LOL.

O.........M..........G!!!!!!!!!
Spongebob's mom, I'm sorry the store clerk was so very rude. That was just spiteful to write that on your receipt. She must be a very frustrated person!
It sounds like Spongebob chose Snap Circuits? That is a very fun toy and both DD7 and DD5 have had lots of fun with it.
Sounds like a boy who knows what he likes!
Have fun!

Incog

Wow! What a petty dictator she is! Ugh. So sorry!

Similar experience. I talked to the principal (a relative of mine) when my son was reading well at four and he told me since it was just a small town school I couldn't expect them to be able to meet his needs and I should put him in private school (which I couldn't afford) or homeschool.

The next year at age five I took him to the Kindergarten teacher for the Kindergarten readiness evaluation. He was excited about starting school and asked a lot of questions. I sat in on the evaluation and thought it went well, but the teacher wrote on his evaluation "verbal overflow" and also that he "couldn't follow directions" when he couldn't answer how old his sister was. I explained at the time that his sister was an adult and didn't live with us and he doesn't like to give a wrong answer if he doesn't know for sure.

So the first day of Kindergarten, at age 5, the teacher handed the adults a list of instructions for putting up the supplies we had to bring. I had my son read the list out loud and follow the instructions that he read so there was no doubt that he could both read and comprehend and follow instructions.

Even though my son could read well, Kindergartners were only allowed to get Kindergarten level books from the library. I asked the teacher if he could get a Cam Jansen book. She got him one, but told me
"at this age kids are more accepting of differences, but when they get older..."
as if I needed to worry about other kids seeing him reading and appearing too smart because this is not a good thing.

I later learned from his friends in public school that if you don't do sports and are smart you are a geek and this school is not very geek friendly.

At a parent teacher conference my son's Kindergarten year, the teacher told us he was doing well in everything except drawing and coloring in the lines and if this didn't improve she would recommend T-1 (a year in between Kindergarten and first grade) so he could work on coloring and drawing because
"he didn't really need to learn anything next year"
since he was already reading well and doing math. Even when we explained about the hypotonia and motor delays and that we realized he would never be an artist and we didn't care, she thought coloring in the lines was important enough to hold him back for.

So I really have a problem with "coloring in the lines" and now years later, what do I need to have him practice for the Explore test? Coloring in the lines.

I pulled my son out of school at the end of the Kindergarten year as recommended by a first grade teacher who thought he was highly gifted and needed to be homeschooled. A year later, when I complained to the superintendent that my son had only homeschooled about two hours a day and now tested grade levels ahead of his age mates in school, he told me that I should continue to homeschool because they could not provide an appropriate education and
"this is a good problem to have."

DD7 started K at a school in CA and she was in class with my BF's dd. The teacher at her K didn't recognize dd's GT-ness, even though I tried telling her that she was reading nearly a year before K even started. At report time, dd got marked "at grade level" for just about everything, including reading. (???) So...1/2 way through K we move to NV. Within 2 weeks the school had dd run through a battery of tests since it was obvious that she was way ahead. She tested out at 2nd grade level across the board. When I told my friend this news her response was: "Wow...they must have lower standards there"

It floored me.

I think that other parents say these things because they interpret *your* child being so far ahead as meaning that *their* child must be behind. It seems to be sort of a defensive reflex in my experience.

Some of my IRL friends see DS as 'wildly smart,' some, and his old school's teachers, see him as a bit smarter than their bright kids, but 'odd,' I'm sure that there are many many PG kids who don't come off as 'different' I just don't happen to have one!
Smiles,
Grinity

Ok. Maybe I do have baggage!

Here are some things that happened to me--

When I was in 5th grade my parents had me placed in a 5th/6th combo class. It was supposed to be a self-paced class. Well, it was self-paced until I finished the 5th grade math book in just a couple of months. I wanted to continue on with the 6th grade book but the teacher refused. My parents went to talk to her and she told them she was not going to let me do the 6th grade math because it would make the 6th grade boys "feel bad." My dad was livid!

Or how about my Calculus teacher... I was 15, a junior in HS and taking Calculus. It was very easy for me and I scored 100's on everything and caught mistakes by the teacher (probably impolitic...) The teacher was always making comments about me "ruining the curve", etc. Anyway, on the midterm there was this impossibly long arithmetic problem (no calculator allowed) which was completely unrelated to Calculus. The teacher made an announcement to the class--"Don't worry about problem 20, I just put that on the test so that Cathy won't get 100% again."

After a few months of being mistreated by this teacher I went to the school counselor and complained about it. The counselor's response? "You're getting an 'A' aren't you? Well, then what are you complaining about?"

At the end of the year all the seniors got out of school a week early. Being a junior, I still had to go to class. The Calculus teacher, however, went to the teachers' lounge. I just sat in the classroom by myself for an hour every day that week.

So yeah, I have baggage! I'm still mad about it

Cathy

Cathy-

I am so sorry for your bad experiences in high school. That teacher must have had self esteem issues. Were your parents aware of what was going on at the time? From a parent's perspective, I would want to raise he** over it!

Sigh... I had a teacher who was very invested in being smart. He HATED me, and I had to endure him for English classes both freshman year and senior year. He didn't do enough to get himself in trouble, but he used to roll his eyes at me and make sarcastic comments. Once I skipped his class when we had a substitute, and he seemed delighted to provide me with a detention. This guy hosted an annual freshman trip to NYC, and he said he chose the participants by lottery. But I knew the truth when I saw the list of who was "randomly" selected. Every one of his pets made the list, and I obviously, did not.

People who are overinvested in their intelligence can be absolutely brutal to the very people you would expect them to support. Here's a Carol Dweck model that shows what a negative mindset can do: http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2007/marapr/images/features/dweck/dweck_mindset.pdf

Thanks, Lorel! I have no idea what was wrong with the guy but you may be right about that he had self-esteem issues.

I did tell my parents but they didn't complain to the school. Instead they talked to me about intrinsic motivation to show me that I could get a lot out of the class whether or not the teacher liked me. It was probably a useful lesson!

Cathy

I actually have enjoyed reading this thread, so I popped back to page 1 to read from the beginning. Hysterical and depressing, these comments are.
I enjoyed reading that last article posted by Lorel. As adults, hopefully, most of us are capable to deal with these ignornant comments in a mature and effective manner.
However, with a capital H, I think in most cases children are NOT. No matter how intelligent, they probably don't have the experience to deal with hostility from an adult, especially a teacher they are subjected to each day. No matter how brilliant, their identities are still emergent.
I feel strongly that some GT kids would be damaged if subjected to the hostility as described in that Stanford article without parent intervention. As overt as that example is, many GT kids would easily pick up on even subtle hostility.
We've all probably experienced the adult who seems driven to prove to us our child is "just not that smart". I'm glad I'm at the school alot, because if I even got a whiff that an adult would take that attitude to the next level and challenge my child with it..........well..........Like Mr. T. from the A team used to say: "I pity the fool"!!!!!!!!

(putting fists down now)

Incog

I think my parents had already given up on the school. When we first moved there they tried to have me placed in appropriate classes but it was a real struggle. I wonder if this teacher was trying to torture me to make me give up and drop calculus as a way to punish my family for advocating for me.

This is a real fear I have for DS. I think the best placement for him would be 2nd grade next year but even if I talk the school into it I'm afraid he will be punished by the teacher--subtly or not-so-subtly!

My family has already experienced this kind of treatment when advocating for DD who has life-threatening food allergies. We were accused by the principal of "creating an adversarial environment which could be detrimental to our child." That certainly sounded like a threat to me... No matter what the parents are like they shouldn't be taking it out on the child! It's disgusting that they use this as leverage against parents who try to advocate for their children.

Cathy

Here is my contribution:

The vision therapist that DD was seeing a few months ago told me that her advanced verbal development was destroying her visual abilities.
She even sugested to use more my hands to communicate with DD and do less talking.

So now you know the secret to perfect eye vision: Do not talk!

Isa, that has to be the most bizzare thing I have ever heard!!! No wonder your vision therapy didn't go well.