I'm sitting here watching my DS6 sleep. He's sleeping because he wore himself out screaming at what a horrible person I am. Chanting "My mom hates me", tears rolling, completely out of control for 45 minutes. Through it all I wore my standard face of calm and wondered at what point his emotional age is going to get beyond toddler.

I've read a lot about asynchronous behavior including emotional development which tends to lag behind, but this is crazy. At what point do you stop calling it normal for GT?

He's been doing great for the last couple of weeks, now all of a sudden he's hitting, not following directions and completely falling apart with every correction. I'm at a loss.

Shari,

How often does he have these episodes? Are you recording his behavior in order to do comparisons and to provide information for a diagnosis?

What does your mom-gut say? Does this seem like a "normal" tantrum (whatever that means...), or are you actually worried that something is wrong?

Dunno if this helps, but we had a saying in Girl Scouts that it's not normal for kids to behave well all the time. It helps me sometimes to remind myself of that.

Has something changed that might be throwing him off?

What set him off today? Is that the same thing (or similar to the things) that usually sets him off?

Were food and sleep normal today? In my experience, those are not to be underestimated as a tantrum trigger!

Do you think he's coming down with something? DD5 regressed about 3 years during last night's temper tantrum and she's been fighting off a cold.
P.S. When he's in a receptive mood, you may want to explain that you don't give into his temper tantrums because you love him too much to let him grow up thinking that will get him what he wants.

What set him off was not earning free time on the computer today. He lost the chance by hitting other kids twice. He's always been very emotional, but there have been a few times lately that he just seems to lose control.

This whole thing with hitting and not respecting other people's personal space is fairly new. He's not sick although one of his brothers has the flu so maybe. His sleep has never been good, but I can't say that it's worse than normal. He seems to be loving his school work, even asking if we can continue science past the time frame. I just don't know.

Electronics are a big trigger for my kids. They want what they want when they want it, and I tend to have an iron fist about computer game-type stuff that triggers bad behavior. My kids can't play Wii at all this fall, and that's after they couldn't play it at all all summer. They play it once and get ROTTEN! Mouthy, mean to one another, angry, ignoring my rules, etc. When it happens now, I just cut them off. It solves a lot of problems. I get tired of it, especially since they are usually very well-behaved without the Wii.

I don't know if my experience there is at all relevant, since it sounds like the hitting came before the computer-related tantrum. The hitting seems to me to be a separate issue. But I'd see an outburst over the media issue from my kids, too. Not 45 minutes' worth, but a definite tantrum.

So sorry!

What are you thinking about it? What's your take?

{hugs} Shari. I really dislike it when DS goes ballistic around here - and always feels like he is able to get past it before I can. Sometimes I feel like the volatility itself is the worst part.

The only thing I can think of is that my DS7 is really helped by us giving him positive, or even neutral, recognition when things aren't going badly. It's hard sometimes because when things are going well I get focused on doing something else myself.

Oh - that makes me think, what about stress level and work load for you? Could this be related?

The nap is over. After a very reasonable conversation with my DS in which he made very valid points, I've decided to try a new approach.

Since the beginning of this adventure the one piece of advice I've always followed is to follow his lead. We've studied all kinds of things that I never would have considered had it not been for his interest. He told me today that he needs time on the computer so that he can get good at it. He needs to practice his typing, his research skills etc. He says that it is a skill he needs to complete his future studies. He made a point to tell me that no matter how bad he was I'd never take away his Math or Grammar so why then do I take away the computer?. He's right!

If he wanted to practice the violin 5 times a day, I buy a set of earplugs and send him on his way. If he had dreams of the PGA and hit golf balls for 3 hours a day, I wouldn't say no.

So I've decide that the same should go for the computer. The computer is his passion. I'm going to follow his lead. I'm going to set up a new schedule complete with 2-3 hours of computer time. I'll give him typing, programming and research projects. I'll teach him to use Microsoft Publisher and Excel. Whatever I can think of to give him the skills he so desperately wants. It won't be in a block and will take place after regular schoolwork. It's crazy, but normal rules don't apply with DS so it just might work.

Crossing my fingers, off I go...........

I think that is an excellent idea, Shari.
It changes the view of a computer from a toy to a tool. That is something I think is very important in today's world.
My DS always very positively responds if I try to see his point of view, he then turns and acknowledges my view all by him self, and we usually ended up with compromise, naturally.
Good luck, I hope it works.

Good luck Shari. If he's using the computer for valid educational purposes then I guess he's right...it's not just a "toy". Boy I love how they are so good at validating their points so young

I don't agree. If computer is something that is dear to him, then I think it is the perfect consequence to unacceptable behavior. At that age, kids should know that hitting is not acceptable, period. Your son understands that hitting is wrong, and as long as he knows the consequences ahead of time, then I think taking away the computer is fair. He is in charge and in control of this happening. No hitting, computer time. Hitting, no computer. I think this would stop that behavior short.

When my dd was little, she used to ask me what the consequence would be if she did x behavior. Then she would decide if doing it was worth the price she would have to pay for it. It usually wasn't!

I hear you, but I could go either way. If he's just finagling for more computer time, then of course that's a problem. If he's fustrated and acting out because he's not having his needs met, well, that's a different story.

No, the hitting behavior isn't okay, and "not enough computer time" isn't an excuse for that bad behavior. But it might be an explanation, and in that case, more computer time might fix the behavior problem.

Personally, I think I'd give it a trial run. If his behavior improves, great. If he still hits, the computer goes back on the chopping block and he can factor that into his decision whether to hit or not.

If nothing else, it reinforces the notion that talking civilly works better than tantrums!

I think it's also important to get across to him that he doesn't get to pick his consequences. He gets to make his choices but life doesn't let you pick your consequences. You love him too much to let him grow up thinking he has this kind of power.

Hope the trial run works out and I'm impressed with his reasoning. I've had similar experiences as Kriston with problematic behavior when DD's computer time is over. The consequence is a break from the computer and she usually asks (screams!) for a different consequence. I stay firm with the original consequence because I don't want her to think she controls her consequences. DD is usually very upset when she wants a different consequence but if she approached it like your son did, I might reconsider the next time.

I recently finished the book "Respectful Kids: The Complete Guide to Bringing Out the Best in Your Child" by Dr. Todd Cartmell. Even though the book is not written for gifted kids, I really liked it. It prioritized the fundamental behavior expectations that we try to achieve in our household. (FYI: Dr. Todd Cartmell's biblically based techniques equip parents to help children break disrespectful habits and instead nurture respectful behaviors.)

Dr. Cartmell is a child psychologist and the book talks a lot about the respect-privilege connection. "Why is it so critical to help our children see this distinction between rights and privileges? . . . We want our children to learn that treating people respectfully will always work out better than treating them disrespectfully. To put it in language that kids will clearly understand, the child who treats others respectfully will experience the benefits that only respectful behavior can bring." He actually addresses computer time and video games a lot in the book- including how to get kids to stop when you determine it is time for them to stop playing and how to link computer time (or any other "privilege") with respectful behavior. He uses a lot of dialog examples with his patients that I liked because it presents you with a model script for introducing the concepts to your kids.

Because it is a Christian-based book, I understand it may not be appropriate for your family beliefs but I do think the overall concepts could work well in any household regardless of religious beliefs (you do have to wade through some Bible verses though). It is a quick read with lots of applicable nuggets of information. I think it is worth a read!

I agree with giving him computer time for the reasons that he gave, but that only applies to school related use. Free time on the computer, games, fun, social networking sites, etc... You can still cut those out for bad behavior. True, you wouldn't take away his grammar for bad behavior, but you sure as heck might tell him you won't play Scrabble with him because he's being a jerk.

This is a topic near and dear to our hearts. We have a Wii and a computer. DS9 is a computer wiz, can find any answer to any question on the net, is learning programming (he is taking a class that is surprisingly too easy for him), can type at reasonable speed after rejecting all efforts being taught. He loves to blog, research, send e-mail, debug software, etc etc etc.

But too much screen time makes him ornery. We have an electronic timer and both educational and recreational computer time is monitored. It doesn't work for him to say "I'm working on programming now" open ended. He would sit at the computer all day until he was starving, drooling, and ready to take our heads off. I can let him work on it for 1/2 hour, the timer goes off, and he better be off if he expects any additional computer time in the near future. If he can't find his timer or fails to turn it on, he's done. We laid down these rules and he lives by them now and doesn't even bother to complain about consequences any more. He gets 20-30 recreational minutes a day and educational use is doled out in small quantities as needed. His recreational time is the first thing to go if we have behavioral problems.

Anyway - thought I'd share our tool with you FWIW! The timer is VERY important at our house! Good luck!

HAHAHAHAHA! I know EXACTLY what you mean! Entertaining and accurate!

That's a tough situation. DS5 is very into the computer, but we definitely limit it. If he has a bad day at school (determined by his color changes) he loses computer and TV for the day. It doesn't happen all that often but at least once a week lately. He does go on computers every day at school because he has a program he does on it and they let him play puzzle games apparently but that is another story. He LOVES the computer, but I know that is what he loves so that is what we have to take. Thankfully DS doesn't argue and try to get us to change it ever because he figured out that we never have taken back a punishment that we gave him (although we have occasionally lessened a punishment due to marked change in behavior). He does whine and fuss about other things though and can be quite emotional....this used to be really bad but has gotten better in the last several months. If you don't want to take computer away completely you can also limit the time. He could lose time for certain offenses. Or he could only do educational type things at times. My DS loves those puzzle games and while they are educational and visual spatial and math oriented, I still limit them because there are other things that he can do on the computer and he often won't branch out unless he has to.

I think since hitting is so serious, it's important to have a serious consequence, but you also need to get to the bottom of what is going on and what is making him feel like he needs to hit. That's harder. Sometimes these kids, and lots of kids in general, go through stages where they feel really strong emotions and aren't sure how to handle it and need to be given other ideas.

Anyhow, good luck to you! I don't know how you do all that you do with those kids, your business, homeschooling. It makes me tired just thinking about it.

Ha - glad it's just not at our house! It's kind of disturbing.

I come from a dad who is a computer programmer now my brother is a coder and telecommutes 1000 miles, as does my sister in law. My brother and sister in law sit in the same room and IM eachother rather than talk- it's weird but it works for them! My husband is an online gamer and DS learns by far the best from the computer. Fine by me, I get the TV to myself lol!

I'm a pretty big believer in natural consequences. I wouldn't have taken away the computer for my son hitting in a different setting unrelated to it. Now if I'd said "get off" leaned over to turn off the screen and hit me? You bet. In the circumstance you described, I would have taken him home from the location immediately (or made him sit out if I had to). Depending on why the incident happened, he may have to make an apology to the kid, write a letter apologizing etc. I also have a copy of "Hands are not for hitting" and I have made him (at 6!!) sit and read the book aloud 3x.

By the way, as a kid, my mom always made me choose my own consequences. She says that as a perfectionist, HG+ kid, I was always far harder on myself than she would have ever been!

Sigh...this is the way I am too. Things can get pretty bad around here when I have a lot of work.

Hmmm...I may have to rethink my approach and try this.

Me too! I like this idea a lot. My ds would quite certainly pick something worse than I could choose. However, I'm not sure how long it would last before he figured that out and lightened his load!

One week done and so far (knock on wood)things are going really well. In addition to his regular schoolwork, DS is now doing a keyboarding program and working on Scratch. My brother who is a computer geek extraordinaire is giving him simple tasks each day. "Make the cat blue and have it jump up and down, Make the cat change color with each jump.... You get the idea. Everyday he's adding to or starting a new project. He is in heaven. He has been spending not only his allotted "programming" time on scratch but his free hour as well.

Yay! Better behavior, too, I guess?