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    #56261 09/22/09 03:23 PM
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    Cathy A Offline OP
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    Today my DS got recess detention for drawing on his whiteboard during a money lesson. I asked him why he wasn't paying attention to the teacher and he said that he thought the lesson was kind of easy and he was bored.

    I did reinforce with him that he needs to follow the rule (no drawing on the math whiteboards) and pay attention to the teacher...but I'm starting to worry... crazy

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    Cathy A Offline OP
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    Does it seem a little draconian to make a kid stand on a red X on the playground during recess just for drawing during a math lesson that he already understands?

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    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    Does it seem a little draconian to make a kid stand on a red X on the playground during recess just for drawing during a math lesson that he already understands?

    That's terrible! Reminds me of standing in a corner with a dunce hat. Your poor little guy. How does the school justify this?

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    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    Does it seem a little draconian to make a kid stand on a red X on the playground during recess just for drawing during a math lesson that he already understands?
    That's so sad frown If he wasn't bothering the rest of the class why did she punish him?

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    Val Offline
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    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    Does it seem a little draconian to make a kid stand on a red X on the playground during recess just for drawing during a math lesson that he already understands?

    It sounds mean, unhelpful, and humiliating/an invitation to be teased by the other kids. I'd write to the teacher and/or principal about it (but that's just me). What's the justification?

    Is this his first offense? If so, what happens on a second or third offense?

    Val

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    Cathy A Offline OP
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    The RED X is the all-purpose punishment here at this school. I'm a little confused by the whole thing, though, because at back-to-school night last week the teachers explained the discipline policy and they said that kids would receive a verbal warning, if the behavior continues, they turn the child's card to yellow, and if the behavior continues, then the child gets a red x. Two red x's in one day=phone call to parents and behavior ticket. Beyond that, the card is turned to purple and the child is sent to the principal's office.

    The teachers said they reserve the right to skip some of these steps for serious offenses. She skipped two steps for drawing!

    I asked her if this was the first issue she had seen with him thinking that maybe his card was already on yellow for something else, but she said, no, there was nothing else.

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    Val Offline
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    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    The teachers said they reserve the right to skip some of these steps for serious offenses. She skipped two steps for drawing!

    So, following that logic, what happens if there's a fight at recess? Do they do a nickel in Pelican Bay?*

    Oy. crazy My mom used to get really annoyed about stuff like this (Hmm. I've just given away some information about myself...).


    Feeling your pain,

    Val


    * Translation for non-native English speakers: this means "spend five years at a notorious prison in northern CA."


    Last edited by Val; 09/22/09 06:49 PM.
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    Cathy A Offline OP
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    Probably. Or time on The Rock.

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    Vee veel haf deeseepleen or der veel bee konzeqweencees!!

    LOL!!

    Red X's??

    That sounds like Hollywood Squares!!!

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    Val Offline
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    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    Probably. Or time on The Rock.

    Yeah, in January, outside, with no supplies except a plastic garbage bag, an empty Coke bottle, and a bent dime.

    That'll learn 'em.

    Val

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    Originally Posted by Val
    So, following that logic, what happens if there's a fight at recess? Do they do a nickel in Pelican Bay?*


    Look up the Skeleton Coast ... its MUCH worse!!

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    Cathy A Offline OP
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    Thanks for making me laugh, guys smile

    I'm probably making too big of a deal out of it... DS seemed to take it in stride. I guess if kids get red X'ed all the time, it loses its scare value. And I haven't heard of kids getting teased about it... I think they see it more as a badge of honor.

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    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    And I haven't heard of kids getting teased about it... I think they see it more as a badge of honor.
    Sounds like when cadets have to march tours at our military academies. His elementary experience will serve him well if he pursues that option. wink

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    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    Thanks for making me laugh, guys smile

    I'm probably making too big of a deal out of it... DS seemed to take it in stride. I guess if kids get red X'ed all the time, it loses its scare value. And I haven't heard of kids getting teased about it... I think they see it more as a badge of honor.

    This may have worked out to his benefit then. Now, he's really 'one of the guys'. I'd let it go, I think, at this point. Yes, I think it was a totally inappropriate punishment. But if it's an isolated incident, and your son is taking it in stride, I'd count it as a mark of your son's growth for handling it.

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    Maybe if the drawing was of a one dollar bill with all the details, he would've gotten extra credit instead of recess detention!!! wink wink wink wink Or, if anything, his prison cell walls will be nicely decorated! wink


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    Drawing doesn't necessarily mean you're not paying attetion; doodling can be a way to keep you mind fairly wakeful during a dead-dull lecture - studies have shown that folks allowed to doodle tend to retain MORE than people who are not allowed.

    Anyhow, if it keeps up, maybe you can ask the teacher to query your ds as to some relevant info she think's he's missed. If he usually knows the answer, maybe he could be allowed to keep doodling. I was a serious doodler in class, usually in the back of the room, but always had a correct, and often pithy response for teachers - thinking they'd really really caught me off guard they'd select me for a tough question and I'd nail the answer, because despite the doodling, I really was listening.

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    Val Offline
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    Originally Posted by Dottie
    It's an older one that tells a story, and the guy starts out talking about how he was arrested for throwing trash, and was on the bench with all the other mean serial killers? Anyone know what I'm talking about? I can see Cathy's little guy there saying "I drew during a money lesson" <and they all moved away on the bench>...

    It was Alice's Restaurant/Alice's Restaurant Massacree by Arlo Guthrie. They made it into a very funny movie. I can still seem him making friends with the mean-looking guys on the bench (I think they decided he was okay when he subsequently announced that he'd also been charged with disturbing the peace).

    (The song was based on a true story)

    Val

    Last edited by Val; 09/23/09 09:00 AM.
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    Cathy A Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by Dottie
    I can see Cathy's little guy there saying "I drew during a money lesson" <and they all moved away on the bench>...

    laugh

    And thanks for mentioning Alice's Restaurant, Val... my DH put it on the Netflix queue for me!

    DH says, the next thing will be DS coming home from school with a teardrop tattoo.

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    Cathy A Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by OHGrandma
    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    Thanks for making me laugh, guys smile

    I'm probably making too big of a deal out of it... DS seemed to take it in stride. I guess if kids get red X'ed all the time, it loses its scare value. And I haven't heard of kids getting teased about it... I think they see it more as a badge of honor.

    This may have worked out to his benefit then. Now, he's really 'one of the guys'. I'd let it go, I think, at this point. Yes, I think it was a totally inappropriate punishment. But if it's an isolated incident, and your son is taking it in stride, I'd count it as a mark of your son's growth for handling it.

    Thanks, OHG. I have to remember that my son is not me (and that's probably a good thing!) As a kid, I would have completely gone to pieces over something like this.

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    Originally Posted by chris1234
    Drawing doesn't necessarily mean you're not paying attetion; doodling can be a way to keep you mind fairly wakeful during a dead-dull lecture - studies have shown that folks allowed to doodle tend to retain MORE than people who are not allowed

    If this was Mr W, I'd work with him to dig up some papers on this and give them to the teacher. That would be a real push back.

    LOL

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    Originally Posted by Austin
    Originally Posted by chris1234
    Studies have shown that folks allowed to doodle tend to retain MORE than people who are not allowed
    If this was Mr W, I'd work with him to dig up some papers on this and give them to the teacher. That would be a real push back.
    A quick Google search:
    Doodling helps you pay attention...

    Heck, I may even add this to my list of desired accommodations for today's meeting! If nothing else, it gives me a throw-away negotiation chip.

    Although, after skimming a couple of articles, I dunno -- looks pretty convincing to me.


    Being offended is a natural consequence of leaving the house. - Fran Lebowitz
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    Cathy A Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by master of none
    If my kid is drawing on the white board when the teacher told them not to, I'd support a consequence. If the kids can't manage their impulses and are drawing on their board, and then have to erase when it's time to do actual work on the board, it holds up the whole group. How can you draw a group of 8 grapes +2 when you have another picture on the board? What if you like the picture and don't want to erase it? What if you have a meltdown when the teacher says to erase it? (not that your child would do this, but probably some children do) I think for group unity, just don't draw on the board until you are permitted.

    I completely agree. And I supported her rule with DS. It's the consequence I have an issue with.

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    Originally Posted by Val
    Originally Posted by Cathy A

    Yeah, in January, outside, with no supplies except a plastic garbage bag, an empty Coke bottle, and a bent dime.

    Val

    This would be a reward for my DS7.

    I am so sorry to hear about your DSs situation Cathy A. I have big issues with those discipline cards. My DS suggested that he just turn the card to red right off the bat, go to the principal and get sent home. That's where he wanted to be anyways. (My cue to pull him out of PS).

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    Val Offline
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    Originally Posted by Dottie
    Thank you thank you thank you Val!!!! I could not for the life of me remember that, and all my "subconsciences" was getting was Adam Sandler's turkey song, sick .

    Walk right in it's around the back,

    Just a half a mile from the railroad track...

    You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant (excepting Alice)....

    Val

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    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    Originally Posted by master of none
    If my kid is drawing on the white board when the teacher told them not to, I'd support a consequence. If the kids can't manage their impulses and are drawing on their board, and then have to erase when it's time to do actual work on the board, it holds up the whole group. How can you draw a group of 8 grapes +2 when you have another picture on the board? What if you like the picture and don't want to erase it? What if you have a meltdown when the teacher says to erase it? (not that your child would do this, but probably some children do) I think for group unity, just don't draw on the board until you are permitted.

    I completely agree. And I supported her rule with DS. It's the consequence I have an issue with.


    The good thing I see in this is your son has been able to accept it and move on. Too many of us gifted people have a highly developed sense of right & wrong, and it's really hard to accept an injustice. But at this point, it's a minor injustice. Maybe the teacher had a bad day, and wrongly jumped to a more severe punishment than deserved, and definitely did not follow protocol. Who hasn't had a bad day and treated someone else unfairly at some time? Repeated injustice needs to be addressed, but if this is the first time and it happened to my GS10, I'd be real proud of him if he didn't get bent out of shape over it. I am constantly telling GS10 "life is not fair, get over it"!

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    Quote
    How can you draw a group of 8 grapes +2 when you have another picture on the board?

    LMAO! "How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?"

    But that's a different song....

    "I mean, I'm sittin' here ... I'm sittin' here on the Group W bench because you wanna know if I'm moral enough to join the army, burn women, kids, houses and villages after bein' an elementary school doodler...."


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    Cathy A Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by OHGrandma
    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    Originally Posted by master of none
    If my kid is drawing on the white board when the teacher told them not to, I'd support a consequence. If the kids can't manage their impulses and are drawing on their board, and then have to erase when it's time to do actual work on the board, it holds up the whole group. How can you draw a group of 8 grapes +2 when you have another picture on the board? What if you like the picture and don't want to erase it? What if you have a meltdown when the teacher says to erase it? (not that your child would do this, but probably some children do) I think for group unity, just don't draw on the board until you are permitted.

    I completely agree. And I supported her rule with DS. It's the consequence I have an issue with.


    The good thing I see in this is your son has been able to accept it and move on. Too many of us gifted people have a highly developed sense of right & wrong, and it's really hard to accept an injustice. But at this point, it's a minor injustice. Maybe the teacher had a bad day, and wrongly jumped to a more severe punishment than deserved, and definitely did not follow protocol. Who hasn't had a bad day and treated someone else unfairly at some time? Repeated injustice needs to be addressed, but if this is the first time and it happened to my GS10, I'd be real proud of him if he didn't get bent out of shape over it. I am constantly telling GS10 "life is not fair, get over it"!

    You know, I thought about why it's hard for me to let this go, and I think it's because I'm afraid it's an indication of how she will handle discipline this year. I'm worried. Not so much about this particular incident, but about what it means in terms of her attitude toward my son. I know I shouldn't jump to conclusions...


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    Originally Posted by chris1234
    Drawing doesn't necessarily mean you're not paying attetion; doodling can be a way to keep you mind fairly wakeful during a dead-dull lecture - studies have shown that folks allowed to doodle tend to retain MORE than people who are not allowed.

    Anyhow, if it keeps up, maybe you can ask the teacher to query your ds as to some relevant info she think's he's missed. If he usually knows the answer, maybe he could be allowed to keep doodling. I was a serious doodler in class, usually in the back of the room, but always had a correct, and often pithy response for teachers - thinking they'd really really caught me off guard they'd select me for a tough question and I'd nail the answer, because despite the doodling, I really was listening.

    I agree. I personally have a really hard time listening without keeping my hands busy with something,usually doodling or crocheting. I doodle (or fill in all of the circles in the letters on the bulletin) at church because I don't think working on my latest crochet project in church would go over well. Maybe I need to join an older church and convince all of the little old ladies to bring their projects to church with them so I can too.

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    Originally Posted by JoAnnQN
    I agree. I personally have a really hard time listening without keeping my hands busy with something,usually doodling or crocheting.

    I can't watch a DVD unless I'm doing something else, like putting a puzzle together or playing Set or solitaire or something. I mostly listen to the DVD while looking at whatever. I'm sitting here writing a paper, and I need to play music to keep myself focused. I even find that my ability to ice skate improves if a song I like is playing.

    It's as though part of my brain needs to be distracted so that another part can concentrate.

    Val

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    One time when my ds was in Kindergarten he wouldn't do an assignment b/c it was to easy. He told the teacher he was doing this type of work when he was 2 years old. They didn't let him go to lunch with his classmates and had to go to the vice-principal's office to do his work. He stood his ground. He missed lunch with his friends and recess with his friends. It wasn't until the last lunch period (by this time 3 had passed) that they allowed him to go eat then go back to the vp's office to finish his work. Well, after he ate it took him all of 5 min to do. The vp was impressed that he did it all correctly in 5 min but was disappointed in him b/c if he would have just done it at first he would have been allowed to eat and have recess with his friends. DS needed to learn to do the work that the teacher gave him but holding him from eating I didn't agree. I am proud that ds was trying to show them in his own way that the work was easy but was sad b/c they didn't see it that way nor do anything about it.

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