Thank you for sharing your insight! Folks on this Board love data but are often baffled by the meaning of the data (as am I) so we love to receive any feedback from a pro.

great thread. i am just curious if anyone knows out there if, in general, WISC IV scores and WPPSI scores are interchangable when it comes to statements made about comparing WISC-IV scores to old SB-LM scores.

Hi Dr. Ruf - so great to see you here! I've always wondered about your statement above. I mean,from reading your book, I estimate DS13 is probably a level 3 kind of guy - and he scored well enough to make the YSP cutoff, but he wasn't ready to do many of the elementary school tasks more than a year or two before his agemates, in our local 'somewhat above average' district.

Things like telling time, learning to read, small motor coordination for pencil holding, and the dreaded 5 paragraph essay all came within a year or two of his agemates - sometimes ahead of them and sometimes behind them! So I've always wondered what exactly you mean by the '135 could finish in 2 years' statement. Sure, if we started at age 8, he could have it all done by age 10, but at age 7 the '5 paragraph essay' just didn't seem to be in him. Isn't there some physical maturation that is needed for parts of finishing elementary school?

Of course in whatever he did, he was clearly 'different' - using abstract thinking way before peers, and rescuing teachers during class discussion. Even now in 9th grade at age 13 taking all honors classes, he sees that his well organized, hard working, high achieving, classmates don't get the symbolism in the assigned reading. (Today's was Plato's Allegory of the Cave - in English)

Anyway, I just ask because I find everything else in your book to be crystal clear, and so it really stands out to me that part I just can't wrap my head around. Maybe also because it stokes my 'Is he really 2E?' worries.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

This thread has been so helpful that I've forwarded pieces of it to my mom. As a kid who was ID'd PG in the late 70s with a child now who is HG+ it's always been weird that the scores didn't line up and couldn't really be compared. I really appreciate being able to explain to my parents that 140 is the new 170!

CAMom - I had the same conversation with my DH. People think 145 is barely gifted lol. Ugh nope! LOL!

I don't know much about these tests, and now I'm confused and want to understand this better. So if anyone can clarify this for me, I'd really appreciate it.

When Dr. Ruf compared the SBV and WISC-IV to the old SBLM is that without the extended norms? If you have an extended score, would that match up with the SBLM more closely?

I know without the extended scores, you can't tell if a 145 is a 145 or possibly/likely higher because of ceiling issues. So it may really be in the 170's. Without extended scoring, you just can't tell. My dd had a score in the high 150's and I have a really hard time believing that it could really be in the 200's on the old scale. With the extended scores, it went up, but only to the 170's, no where near the 200 mentioned.

I guess it reaches a certain point where it doesn't really matter, she's really out there either way. I'm just curious because I happen to know my parents' IQs (both around 150) on the SB-LM and I think it's interesting to compare.

Dear Sitting Pretty:

I love that Intel commercial! Thanks so much for the kind words.

Deborah Ruf

WPPSI scores are somewhat inflated compared to WISC-IV scores. Part of the reason for this is that many very bright kids are at an advantage compared to the norm groups when they take either tests before they are six or seven years old. It is easier to score above 150 on the WPPSI, too. So, no, you can't really compare them although they are certainly in the "ball park."

thank you dr. ruf..
irene

Dear Grinity:
It is always helpful to me to find out what hadn't been clear to my readers. Thank you for expressing it so clearly for me. I am talking about information and understanding, not small muscle control. I am definitely not talking about handwriting -- or any writing at all - for the typical EG/PG little boy, either! I am talking about concepts, understanding, conversation, and absorbing of the material. I should add that I don't recommend radical acceleration except carefully by some subjects, primarily math. I recommend ability grouping as classroom of choice (rare to find, of course) because the natural immaturities and physical realities make it incredibly problematic to move little kids up too fast to work with more physically mature children. This is one of the reasons Leta Hollingworth talked about how the worst times for PG kids are the school years leading up to age ten. After age ten, the physical issues of handwriting, for example, are no longer a big deal or something that holds the child back.

Just so you know, while I love sharing my information and ideas, I really don't spend a lot of time on any lists or social networks due to lack of time. Please don't be offended if I don't continue to check back:-)

Regards,
Deborah